Poppy etiquette for Germans

[Fanta4]

Nc but long time member.

I am German. I have lived in the UK pretty much all my adult life (my choice, not circumstance). Every year I have an internal debate about whether I should/ should not wear a poppy. Mindful also that I work in a formal, customer facing environment and don’t have a noticeably German accent.

Pros:
_Good cause I support
_On a personal level, very grateful for the sacrifice, particularly WW2, which my parents vividly and horribly remember
_Feel fully part of British society, my children are British etc

Cons
_Feels strangely disrespectful to wear a poppy when my quite recent ancestors caused so much death and destruction
_I’ve had an elderly neighbour at the door selling poppies who would only sell to my husband, so feelings obvs strong in that generation and I don’t want to offend

So over to you, wise Mnetters. AIBU to wear a poppy?

On the bright side this thread is a good indication that there will be people in future only too willing to forgive and understand today’s atrocity committers

Don’t worry ISIS, you’ll be understood and forgiven too, eventually

The provenance of ISIS is highly dodgy.

" I do worry that in any other context people would shout cultural appropriation if I wanted to wear a symbol of their culture/ heritage. "

oh fgs it's not cultural appropriation. It's a sign of respect. If all Germans in Germany now started wearing the poppy to remember the german fallen that would be a bit dodgy but as a German born person who is settled in their british community it's a sign of adapting and connecting with your environment and community. It wouldn't be good to be ignorant about wearing the poppy and i have taught my german british dc firmly that the poppy is to remember the fallen soldiers who gave their lives to fight Germany as the German regime was 'bad' a the time. my dc are young primary school age and will learn more details as they grow up. My eldest knew about hitler since she was 6 years old as we had a long walk --scoot- along the remains of the old wall. She was very interested and used to mispronounce 'nazis' as 'nasties'.

I really cannot understand how people can seriously equate Brexit with Nazism. I'm not keen on the idea of us leaving the EU but I am a lot less keen on Nazis and in particular the fact they murdered millions of people.

'I also think we could do with a reminder in this country that there was not something intrinsically flawed in the German psyche that led to the rise of the Nazis, and there is not something intrinsically noble and superior in the British psyche that makes us immune to a similar thing happening here. Particularly post-Referendum, and particularly given how too many non-British residents are now being made to feel.'

This.

I'm not quite sure how this turned into a debate about German guilt, which OP never at any point disputed. In the main, today's Germans are the least likely people to fall into revisionism (some nasty, but fortunately still marginal, tendencies notwithstanding).

I also think we could do with a reminder in this country that there was not something intrinsically flawed in the German psyche that led to the rise of the Nazis, and there is not something intrinsically noble and superior in the British psyche that makes us immune to a similar thing happening here.

^This.

It isn't about minimising the culpability or denying the guilt of the German people during that era. It's clear from history that many supported the Nazis, and many more turned a blind eye to what was going on. That is shocking, and we should not forget this or try to paper over it, lest it should happen again - in Germany or elsewhere. And let's be honest, it could happen anywhere.

However, recognising the collective guilt of the German people then does not stop us from acknowledging that the German people today are no more responsible for what happened than I am. Most countries have dark periods in their past, but we can only be held responsible for the present, and to some extent, our future.

And acknowledging the collective guilt of the German people then does not stop us from also acknowledging that there were indeed many innocent German civilians who suffered during the war - those who resisted the Nazis, for example; the many children who were killed by the allied bombs; and the many Germans who were taken to concentration camps because they were gay, disabled or didn't quite fit the Nazi ideal in some other way.

Personally, I choose to remember the suffering on all sides.

I haven't read the thread, but I thought that poppies were to remember all those who have died as a result of war. I also like the idea of purple poppies to remember animals. And white poppies to remember the futility of war and all those deaths that should not have been.

NumberEightyOne, I think the reference is to those who were led to believe that voting Brexit was a vote to 'keep the immigrants out' or indeed 'get rid of the immigrants'. Were you aware of some of the things that were said to some EU citizens (and others) in Britain in the days after the referendum?

Nobody is 'equating' it, but there is a thread that connects.

I am aware of anti-immigrant feeling around the Brexit vote. I still feel it's wrong to compare the two. It diminishes the memory of the six million people who were murdered and the scale of that horror in quite an offensive way.

madge unless you lived in Germany in the 1930's ( as did some of DH family) I don't think you can judge their actions. DH great Auntie is 92 and was in the Hitler Youth, she isn't anti Semitic in the slightest and is certainly ashamed of what happened but she also met Hitler twice and at the time was delighted to as he was initially seen as the saviour of their country.
There is still a sense of deep shame and still rifts in families due to the war. I'd I had been alive then would I have joined the Nazi party? I like to think not but I'm pretty sure I would have done what I needed to do to protect my family.
There are very few nations who have no stain on their history but this constant "Germanphobia" is ridiculous - DH has been here since he was 10 but has had racist insults ( usually from people who know him as you wouldn't know he had German heritage from just meeting him). The DC have also been told at school that " Germans caused the war" or that " Germans are evil" . Germany is a great country and to be honest has a lot to teach us in terms of how to behave these days!!

My friend's DH is German and wears a poppy. He is a church leader and still has a noticeably German accent.

My German friend in London didn't wear a poppy but whether that was because she felt she shouldn't or for other reasons I don't know (mine always fall off!) When I was younger I associated the poppy with WW1 and WW2, but it is also about other more recent conflicts. My mum wears a white poppy which commemorates civilian deaths as well.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the current anti-immigrant sentiment is even remotely comparable to the horrors that occurred in Nazi Germany. It would be ignorant and crass to do so.

However, after the referendum, I began to understand for the first time how the rise of fascism had happened in Germany. I saw how quickly things could change and escalate. I was shocked at how ready people were to accept propaganda without really questioning it. And I realised how easy it was for people to distance themselves from their neighbours and to "other" those who were different from them in some way. And it frightened me.

I agree broken nobody woke up one morning a Nazi!!
It was a slow insidious process that many people didn't realise what was happening until it was too late. Just like nobody in The Balkans woke up one morning and decided to kill their neighbors and nobody suddenly joins ISIS.
I can also see how these things happen over and over again and can imagine in 60 years time History teachers standing in front of a class saying " it began with Brexit "

Brokenbiscuit. I worry too about the rise of fascism in the UK and I often read the shit they put online and the literature they produce. They really are a bunch of disorganised half-wits who can't organise a piss up in a brewery. I know people will bleat on about how this is how the Nazis started but seriously, there is (at the moment) no comparison. The UK, whatever people on here want to believe had always been fundamentally anti-fascist. Take for example my home town, who voted Brexit. Not too long before that the fascists thought they would organise a rally there. They literally got ran out of town. People chased them out. I doubt they will ever return now.
GhoststoMonsoon I am sorry that your children are being bullied over their heritage. It's so hard because children are taught how the Germans started WW2 and killed millions of people and they then don't have the sophistication to understand how the German nation and it's people have moved on. It's a tough one when it comes to teaching children about historical facts.

It began with Brexit

Wear your poppy with pride, OP. It's to remember all those fallen in battle. The theme of Remembernce Day 'Lest we Forget' is surely meant to be inclusive and remembers the sacrifice of people on all sides.

Remembrance... autocorrect doesn't like that word. Kept trying to change it to remember acne!

Again, that is not what the poppy is for. The (red) poppy is purely for remembering the British military and allies, not civilians, not enemies

^^
@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

You can wear your poppy for whoever you want to, and I will choose to wear mine for who I wish to remember. It is a very personal choice and you cannot dictate who is remembered and why.

A very interesting question and discussion.

I am the mirror image of you, Fanta4, being a British citizen (and daughter of an RAF officer) who has lived in Germany for 21 years. My husband is German and my son has dual nationality.

I have often wondered whether I should wear a poppy in Germany. A couple of years ago, I wrote a blog post about remembrance in Germany which may be of interest:
writing-community.writersworkshop.co.uk/magazine/read/volkstrauertag_8895.html

Can I also add that the Antifa movement in comparison, is in pretty good shape in the UK.

For three years I went to a tri-national tri-lingual remembrance service at St Symphorien in Belgium. British, Belgian and German servicemen and their families attend the ceremony at the joint cemetery. The respect and commemoration is mutual.

Wear the red poppy for all war dead.

I should add that I wore a red poppy when living in Belgium and also a blue cornflower. At the Menin Gate I was gifted with a red Canadian poppy (by a Canadian) to wear at a special Canada day service.

Angela Merkel was also invited to the last major commemoration of the end of WW1 with all the other Nation's leaders. That was a right and proper step forward. None of the veterans who attended objected to her presence.

Does anyone know where I can get a WHITE poppy
(to wear alongside my red) in time pls?

“is surely meant to be inclusive and remembers the sacrifice of people on all sides.”

I don’t think it is actually! I think it should be, but it isn’t.

“You can wear your poppy for whoever you want to”

Well, yes. You can wear it in support of free ice cream on Saturdays if you want to. But it’s designed to be to remember British & allied service people who died in the wars. Again, not that I agree with that, but I’m just stating a fact.