Poppy etiquette for Germans

[Fanta4]

Nc but long time member.

I am German. I have lived in the UK pretty much all my adult life (my choice, not circumstance). Every year I have an internal debate about whether I should/ should not wear a poppy. Mindful also that I work in a formal, customer facing environment and don’t have a noticeably German accent.

Pros:
_Good cause I support
_On a personal level, very grateful for the sacrifice, particularly WW2, which my parents vividly and horribly remember
_Feel fully part of British society, my children are British etc

Cons
_Feels strangely disrespectful to wear a poppy when my quite recent ancestors caused so much death and destruction
_I’ve had an elderly neighbour at the door selling poppies who would only sell to my husband, so feelings obvs strong in that generation and I don’t want to offend

So over to you, wise Mnetters. AIBU to wear a poppy?

Go with your heart,if you'd like to wear one then do so.if uncomfortable,wear a white poppy for peace or a purple one for the animals that were killed in the war.

Have often thought that the symbol of the poppy should be in remembrance of all of the fallen. That's what I think of when wearing mine.
I research family history and feel sad that unlike Britain, Germany does not seem to have access to all of the records, war grave details or medal cards of the soldiers of WWI. I have German ancestors.
They were all lambs to the slaughter.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6133312.stm

by John McCrae, May 1915

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

I'm a non-Brit living in Britain. It's never occurred to me to wear a poppy and I don't really notice who wears one and who doesn't. I suppose we've got the Daily Mail to do that for us.

Well, you are all lovely and reassuring. So I shall do what I think is right and proper and I do think it is important to remember and acknowledge how lucky we are to live in such peaceful times and what it cost to get us here.
I guess there is some insecurity around after having always felt welcome in Britain, these days things seem less friendly. One of the consequences is that I am finally sorting out my British citizenship (which never seemed necessary and is quite costly). So very much appreciate the positive vibes on this thread.

Personally, I think Germany feels too much guilt about WW2 - no one is responsible for the choices made by people who were in power before most of us were even born. Most of the people who were adults at the time had little power to change what was happening.
When you look back through history, no country comes out if it covered in glory
The poppy is to remember all the fallen.

Could you pop round to your neighbour and ask if she's still got any poppies as you'd like to honour those who've died. Might build a little bridge for her.

A gentle reminder- not English, British.

No one should be judged on their choice to wear or not to wear a poppy.

I don't have one because I don't agree with the way the RBL uses its funds so I would rather donate elsewhere. I wholly support the sentiment, but I'd rather my money goes to those that need it and not on admin and advertising. They do a lot of good, but there are smaller charities that need funds more and have minimal admin costs. They need our support too.

I don't like the way the poppy has become something we must be seen to wear. My dad has bought four because he forgets to put them on so feels he has to buy another!

The One Show made the Cookie Monster wear a poppy last year...

I wanted to add that but my late grandfather who was German refused to join the Nazi party until the very end when it was basically a matter of joining or going to prison and worse. He detested the Nazis and Hitler. He was a linguist and worked as an interpreter (English, French, German) all his adult life.

Before WWII when he was a young student he spent time living in London and Paris and was later sadly sent to France as a German soldier. Because of his translating skills he was glad and proud to have never been forced to physically hurt 'the enemy' and he felt desperately sad and angry that his country had forced him to invade a neighbouring country he had lived in and whose people and culture he loved.

Wearing the poppy is a reminder of "lest we forget" and that is what it's about. The wars were awful and evil and we must never take peace time for granted in a complacent way. In some way I feel that wearing a poppy is my reaching out as a friend to friends, especially being German British.

I re use mine and was interested in making one from the many online knitting or crochet patterns. Therefore remembrance without necessarily supporting TBL

Nah DamsonGin. She was very vocal and clear, no bridges to be built there. Which is fair enough. I have no idea what she’s been through but judging by my parents she probably lived trough horrors we can’t even imagine.

She was very vocal and clear, no bridges to be built there. Which is fair enough

I wouldn't say it was very fair tbh. I wouldn't pursue the issue with her but I would think she was being a bit bigoted under the guise of being patriotic.

Wear it with pride, to remeber all soldiers past and present, they made huge sacrifices.

If we are doing poetry:

At The Cenotaph
I saw the Prince of Darkness, with his Staff,
Standing bare-headed by the Cenotaph:
Unostentatious and respectful, there
He stood, and offered up the following prayer.
'Make them forget, O Lord, what this Memorial
Means; their discredited ideas revive;
Breed new belief that War is purgatorial
Proof of the pride and power of being alive;
Men's biologic urge to readjust
The Map of Europe, Lord of Hosts, increase;
Lift up their hearts in large destructive lust;
And crown their heads with blind vindictive Peace.'
The Prince of Darkness to the Cenotaph
Bowed. As he walked away I heard him laugh.

Siegfried Sassoon

People can remember what/whom they like on remembrance Day, but it is worth noting that the British Legion (who are behind the poppies) say that "The Legion advocates a specific type of Remembrance connected to the British Armed Forces, those who were killed, those who fought with them and alongside them"

So not remembering civilians, or German (or other enemy) soldiers, or the sheer horror and pointlessness of war. Would you consider a white poppy OP?

Love the fact this has turned into a poetry thread winglesspegas and ItsAllGoingToBeFine. Very much appreciated.

The poppy is to remember all the fallen

No, it really isn't.

This is one of my favourite poems, written by someone you wouldn't expect to write something like this. It's not soldiers, sailors or air force personnel who make war but governments and monetary interests.

Mesopotamia
BY RUDYARD KIPLING
1917
They shall not return to us, the resolute, the young,
The eager and whole-hearted whom we gave:
But the men who left them thriftily to die in their own dung,
Shall they come with years and honour to the grave?

They shall not return to us, the strong men coldly slain
In sight of help denied from day to day:
But the men who edged their agonies and chid them in their pain,
Are they too strong and wise to put away?

Our dead shall not return to us while Day and Night divide—
Never while the bars of sunset hold.
But the idle-minded overlings who quibbled while they died,
Shall they thrust for high employments as of old?

Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour?
When the storm is ended shall we find
How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power
By the favour and contrivance of their kind?

Even while they soothe us, while they promise large amends,
Even while they make a show of fear,
Do they call upon their debtors, and take counsel with their friends,
To conform and re-establish each career?

Their lives cannot repay us—their death could not undo—
The shame that they have laid upon our race.
But the slothfulness that wasted and the arrogance that slew,
Shall we leave it unabated in its place?

I watched Heimat on Sky Arts recently. A wonderful series that highlighted how the wars affected ordinary Germans too. I'll be remembering all nationalities' war dead during the silence on Saturday and I don't mind who wears the poppy.

"I wonder if you could shed some light for me from a German perspective? I have a German friend who lives in the UK who is quite outspoken about how dreadful poppy wearing, remembrance parades etc are. She seems to think it is all some English, imperialistic, jingoistic thing that celebrates war. I actually find her views quite offensive as in my experience nothing could be further from the truth - I just have no idea as to where her views have come from so have no idea how to tackle them. Is this a cultural difference or just her?"

Your friend is rude to be outspoken about it it's stubborn and insensitive imo. I never understand how people can be so black and white without trying to see the other side of a topic as your friend seems to be doing.

Saying that it is try that in Germany because of our ugly past in the 20th century people are very suspicious of anything that is celebrating a national event with parades, symbols that are worn and possibly uniforms. This is because the Nazis did exactly this. They were fascist and had their youth march and wear uniforms and symbols etc, as Germans we are deeply suspicious of stuff like that as it reminds us of the evils of Hitler. And then after WWII this sort of organised parades was forced on the people living in Eastern Germany maybe if your friend grew up there she might feel uncomfortable about the marching and uniform aspect of RD parades.

But we are not in Germany and the experiences of the British people was entirely different so she should open her mind a little.

Swirlingasong your friend is probably quite opinionated wrt other topics in life too so she sounds a little bit preachy and annoying.

She seems to think it is all some English, imperialistic, jingoistic thing that celebrates war. I actually find her views quite offensive as in my experience nothing could be further from the truth

On the other hand, I think she is completely correct

just wanted to let people know the source. so many do things and don't know where the idea came from..
i love kipling

blessings and thanks to all who have served and those who have lost.

loving your country isn't the same as loving your government and its decisions.

Yes, my ex (German) was totally against poppies, because he thought it glorified war (and was anti-German). Whereas I think it is about remembering all the men and women who died in the war. I am a pacifist, and I certainly don’t wish to glorify war, but I also think veterans should be respected and those who died remembered.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine
The poppy is to remember all the fallen

No, it really isn't

I agree with you, thus the thread. It is very specifically remembering the British fallen. Which personally I am happy to do. As far as I am concerned the allied forces freed my parents. But I do understand how some might find this inappropriate.

I’ll shut up now. You’ve all been very kind and sensible and I don’t normally read through beautiful poems of a Tuesday evening so thank you all.