Poppy etiquette for Germans

[Fanta4]

Nc but long time member.

I am German. I have lived in the UK pretty much all my adult life (my choice, not circumstance). Every year I have an internal debate about whether I should/ should not wear a poppy. Mindful also that I work in a formal, customer facing environment and don’t have a noticeably German accent.

Pros:
_Good cause I support
_On a personal level, very grateful for the sacrifice, particularly WW2, which my parents vividly and horribly remember
_Feel fully part of British society, my children are British etc

Cons
_Feels strangely disrespectful to wear a poppy when my quite recent ancestors caused so much death and destruction
_I’ve had an elderly neighbour at the door selling poppies who would only sell to my husband, so feelings obvs strong in that generation and I don’t want to offend

So over to you, wise Mnetters. AIBU to wear a poppy?

At first, I felt a bit conflicted on your post. On one hand, Germans are who we were fighting against.
On the other, we can't be held responsible for the actions of our ancestors, or country's history as others have said.
If you think it's a good cause, your family are British, you feel you are too, then that can only be a good thing

Why wouldn't you join in with Octoberfest Wine bottle?

numbereightyone are you being deliberately goady? What a ridiculous comparison to make - between the men in the British armed forces and the citizens of Germany in WW2. German citizens who made even the smallest act of rebellion, such as distributing anti-Nazi leaflets, were tortured and killed. Families killed too as an extra disincentive. Life was very scary for German citizens. Their children were indoctrinated in the Hitler Youth and encouraged to shop subversive parents.

And there was resistance, despite the brutality of the nazis. For example the head of the Abwehr (German military intelligence) Admiral Canaris actually worked against the nazis, passing on false intelligence about the allies to the Nazis. He was executed when they found he was part of the plot to kill Hitler.

op, I like your quote “my quite recent ancestors caused so much death and destruction” ... that’s so very true, and it’s good to acknowledge it. Germans seem to accept that, but not Japanese culture.

It’s your choice whether to wear a poppy, or not.

How can it ever be wrong to wear a symbol that shows you are reflecting on the human cost of war?

I think remembrance is particularly important this year. We've taken so many tiny steps away from peace. Poppies are not worn for the grandparents, but for the children. We need to remind them of the terrible brutalities of war and how easy it is to stumble into if we are not vigilant.

And you as someone else says, you are only responsible for your own actions, no more.

I haven't said there was no resistance and I am sure that it was very intimidating for German people, but I don't believe that there is much in the way of evidence of large-scale resistance of the Nazis by ordinary people. It's a huge, complex subject that I couldn't do proper justice to arguing to and fro and it doesn't serve much purpose setting things out in black and white because it will upset posters unnecessarily. What I will say however is we can't rewrite history simply because it doesn't sit nicely within out 21st century, European take on things.

Just find it uncomfortable that within living memory the Nazis were preaching their cause in beer halls in their Bavarian heartlands. They went on destroy Europe and I'm supposed to get dressed up in all the gear and celebrate the culture.

Xmaspost by the same token and seeing that you like op's admission of her country's past guilt do you acknowledge the death and destruction the British army caused in Iraq?

Many civillians disagreed with what happened in the war. Sadly the Nazi way way 'our way or the highway'

If your family life was at risk if you opened your mouth; if your children's lives depended on you sitting quietly & watching, how much resistance would you put up? Probably not a lot.

I have a lot of sympathy for the civi's in WW2 because the Nazi's hid a lot of the true atrocities from their people. And as said previously; if we expect the current generations of Germany to still feel guilt & not be able to express their sense of loss? Then us Brits have a lot to feel guilty about because we are certainly no angelic group

I think you can wear it, its for remembrance of those who fought for our freedom, you are allowed to think about them and show them respect as your life has most likely turned out the way it has indirectly because of what the allied counties did to over turn Hitler and his pals bad deeds as it were... ( also not all Germans supported Hitler and wouldn't have joined in the war if not for threats to family etc from the ones in control)

And each poppy is also a charitable donation ( or it is in NZ and AUS where we also have poppy day, ANZAC Day) so you are also supporting the RSA ( thats what our donations go to) and that cant be a bad thing

I think fine to wear a poppy on remembrance of all lives lost on all sides.

Yet that's exactly what happened in many places mustbemad17 most notably Poland and France. People who despised fascism put theirs and their families lives on the line by uniting together and forming a resistance movement.

I'm just astounded tbh. Absolutely gobsmacked with the attitudes.

OP I am bowing out as I will no doubt say something I don't perhaps regret but that probably shouldn't be put in writing.
Personally I think you are a very caring person to be worried about what you wearing a poppy means. And I think if you view it as something important & symbolic then anybody who has a problem with it needs to give their heads a bloody good wobble!!!

NumberEightyOne

You are telling me what I think and you are wrong.

I don't think all Germans were fearful. I think some were and they have just as much right to be remembered and mourned as any other nationality. I don't believe that all the Germans accepted the Nazi ideology. Obviously some did but not all.

From what I understand with your post you are saying you think it ironic that the British weren't afraid to fight against the Nazi's which in turn must mean the Germans all agreed with the Nazi's or they would've fought against them too is rather a simplistic view. That's the point I'm trying to make. If a band of Nazi officials came knocking on your door asking why you hadn't signed up yet and if you don't then little Johnny might find himself gassed along with the others you're probably going to do whatever it takes to save your family.
Now I don't believe that happened in every case but I do believe it happened to too many people and they should be remembered aswell.

As for you suggesting I have an ulterior motive, I'm not German, have no German family as far as I'm aware and had family that fought in both WW's I just think that all German people wanting to remember family members that gave up their lives to save their families and friends, even if they were fighting against us, should be free to do so.

Most people, myself including absolutely support the OP's choice to wear a poppy. It's a good thing that she is doing it.

Bookridden

No, you sound very thoughtful and respectful. I think people like you will help to build bridges. Wear your poppy with pride - you are one of us in every way that matters.*

Agreed.

winebottle British service personnel please. RN and RAF personnel died, not just soldiers, and also those in the Merchant Navy who went on those awful convoys.

She seems to think it is all some English, imperialistic, jingoistic thing that celebrates war. I currently live in a small village not far from Brussels. There are a pair of British war graves in the church facing my house. It was All Saints day here on 1st November, and a Belgian put flowers on those graves, just as they did with the graves of their relatives either side. There will be a short service of Remembrance here on Saturday, as 11/11 (Armistice day) is an important day for the Belgians. It is not just the British who remember, the Belgians do so every day at the Menin gate in Ypres.

The friend should go to Tyne Cot, Thiepval. Vimy Ridge and Langemarck to see why we remember. It isn't about WWII, but the sheer horror and devastation wrought between 1914-18. We shouldn't forget, as otherwise we end up in the same place....20 years after the end of WWI the world was looking down the barrel of another global conflict.

If we don't remember, it will happen again.

Please let's not rewrite history though fox. Fascism is growing everywhere and we have to be honest about what happened and why it happened if we don't want to make the same mistakes again.

The whole funding by big banking institutions, propaganda and agenda is just so murky. The average German suffered greatly too over those 2 world wars . I don’t wear a poppy - we’re Irish and we see it as condoning imperialism and giving credence to those who quite happily send and continue to try to send our men to their deaths. However, I don’t think the right to wear it is limited to any one side - most of us suffered terribly in war, whatever ‘side’ we happened to be born on.

I couldn’t give a damn who wears a poppy, or what’s in their heart as they do so

I do think exculpating the German people of that era, not now obviously is disingenuous at best and downright fucked up. They knew what they were getting in to bed with and most of them were just fine with it as long as they were ok.

we should also be at pains to remember that particularly in these times of fascist resurgence

Spot on Madge.

"The road to Auschwitz was built by hate, but paved with indifference." (Kershaw)

I think that may be what Number Eighty Four means? That there was resistance but there was also indifference to the plight of the jews among ordinarily people.

Ah OK Winebottle I thought maybe you were saying it was originally a Nazi festival (it was 18th century, to celebrate having good beer again) (I googled that btw!)

Thanks kittytom. I don't want to have to argue this point, out of respect to the OP, but I'm finding a lot of what is being said so inaccurate and dangerous.

scaryteacher My bad.

Foxysoxy01 You write as if the Nazis were foreign oppressors of the innocent German people. The Nazis were German. They were a grassroots movement with huge support among the people. They could never have seized and maintained power if only a minority agreed with them.