To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

Ffs.
Maybe sex specific spaces (changing rooms and loos etc) should be labelled cocks and cunts rather than male and female as it seems to be so confusing for some people entitled, narcicistic perverts to understand the actual difference between male and female

I genuinely don’t understand the need for ‘women only spaces’. There’s a lot of talk about changing rooms and toilets but unless men are actually coming into the cuubicles with you what’s the problem.

Are there men only spaces?

Skarossinkplunger How about we be just share the spaces?

Did you read the full thread? Lots of reasons already articulated as to why people are against this

How about we just share the spaces?

How about we stop trying to inflict penises into female spaces

How about we just share the spaces?
How about men just share the spaces? Oh that's right, we can't mention male violence because NAMALT but gender non conforming males definitely aren't safe in male spaces.

how about we just share the spaces
Well, at least then we would know what we're sending our girls into when they get changed.
But I think mixed sex spaces have form for being areas that are not safe for women and girls, so I fear that females (the people without penises) would have less social freedom

I think for most here it's not legitimately trans people they're concerned about. It's men who are not, giving themselves a "gender fluid" label and enabling them to gain access to women's spaces

When all changing rooms have floor to ceiling walls and doors with locks, I'll be less concerned. Right now this is a concern.

Are there men only spaces?

Male changing rooms, male hospital wards, male prisons, men only golf clubs, men only social clubs, male sports
And many others are de facto male only spaces as some men are so hostile to women who enter. Such as certain gyms, pubs, snooker halls, employment sectors etc

I have a problem with this as how is the shop assistant going to be able to distingush if the person entering is a gender neutral or a pervert . ' I also imagine teenagers seeing it as a prank if they can get into a girls changng room as a challenge between mates to see what they can 'see'.

Quentin but there are all those things for women and surely a gender fluid female could access those in the same way?

I wonder what would happen if Top Shop called this narcissist's bluff and introduced Female sex changing rooms and separate female gender changing rooms. Then the actual women could go to the female sex changing rooms but there would be a female gender changing room so he couldn't say that he was being prevented from accessing the changing room of his chosen gender.

Ok. I play and coach rugby. I have a long standing interest in provision of female sport.

Women and men don't play rugby together for obvious reasons.

However with the new legalities surrounding people able to self-identity, women COULD end up playing against men. It's already happening in weightlifting, wrestling and Aussie rules. Still see no issue?

The issue for me is men NEVER have to share their spaces. Indeed Travis said he wouldn't be safe in a male changing room yet he, a male, wants access to the female changing room and we all have to say "ok then".?

If changing rooms ALL had cubicles with locking doors and floor to ceiling walls/doors it wouldn't be an issue. Until then it absolutely is.

What do you think might happen to a gender fluid female or trans man in a male prison?
Where are the examples of trans men making male sports teams?
Where are the examples of trans men gaining access to male social/golf clubs? It seems that some trans women are happy to keep their male identity to maintain access to those (I'm looking at you, Caitlyn Jenner, who uses Bruce at the golf club).
Why can't GNC males use male facilities skaross?

But if there's no risk to other users in changing rooms because there's individual cubicles, why would a trans woman feel unsafe in a male changing room? Because there clearly is a risk.

I’ve used female only and unisex changing rooms before. I’m not bothered by them but if I were a teenager I wouldn’t feel comfortable in unisex changing rooms and pulsing shop there. What I am bothered about is topshop changing their policy impacting their largest target market the most (teenage girls) for one entitled man

JacquesHammer I had a look at sports a while back. Looks like England Rugby will move to IOC policy on trans players soon:

However, this policy is currently under review to bring it in line with what will be the Olympic policy once it is agreed by the International Olympic Committee. We are therefore in a transition phase at the moment and the medical thresholds set out in our policy are not necessarily applicable in full, nor applicable to age grade players who are unlikely to be undergoing any surgical or hormonal treatment yet.

That IOC policy is that mtf players must have testosterone under 10nMol/L, and that's it. I think women generally have testosterone in the range of 0.1-3.08 nmol/L.

IOC policy

So male-bodied people can transition in later life and play rugby with women, as long as their testosterone levels are less than three -and-a-half times the levels women normally have.

Trans women have been using the women’s changing rooms and toilets for years, they don’t inspect your genitals before you go in and in practise most people use common sense.
However that man is not a transsexual, he is ‘gender fluid’ (so basically a person) he has no desire to live as a woman he just likes wearing women’s clothes, which is totally fair enough they are nice however when you put on a dress you don’t magically become a woman for the day.
What’s dangerous about changing the policy to suit the whims of men like that is it takes away the ability to challenge ANY man, they simply have to turn around and say ‘I’m a woman’ and then you’re in the wrong if you pursue it.
Why does that man want to use the women’s changing room? He is not a woman, nor has gender dysphoria, he wants to use them to make a point. He want to break down all women’s spaces because he wants to make everything about him ( though obviously doesn’t want to give up any male privilege by actually, you know living as a woman).
I think that we should be concerned by these men, they are getting off on making women feel uncomfortable and they are the exact men I wouldn’t want in a women’s changing room.

If I was a transsexual with gender dysphoria just trying to live my life I’d be really angry about this as the only way to stop it is for women to say actually we don’t want any biological males in the changing rooms, which tars all trans people with the same brush.

skaros

Yes gender non conforming women can use the men’s spaces but they often don’t because it’s seen as safer for them to use the women’s because the problem is male violence.
There was a trans man who was raped in a men’s hostel in Newcastle last year, it’s not as simple as just being able to say ‘I’m a man’ and being able to transcend misogyny.
It’s sad, but true.

You're either a female or you're not! If you have a penis YOU ARE A MALE! Stay in your own fn changing rooms

^^"I have no problem with sharing a changing room, hospital ward etc with a heterosexual man, much less a trans person. "

I am 100% opposed to mixed sex hospital wards. Anyone can imagine the lack of dignity & privacy. Far worse though is what I have seen in days gone by on mixed geriatric wards. Often patients have an element of dementia / side effects of drugs resulting in altered social boundaries. Old ladies in cotton nighties being groped by strangers in a supposed place of safety and care.

Oh no, what a horror knowing that there may be someone of the opposite sex on the other side of the seperator

Great contribution to the discussion, Clockwork - must feel great to deride women who are talking about legitimate concerns here.

clockwork If you read the thread you would understand that is it about a little bit more than that.

I have and I personally don’t care

Can I suggest that everyone stops naming and sharing photos of the idiot responsible for this? That is surely just what he or she or whatever the fuck wants.