To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

"What does "yt" mean in that post he made?"

yt is 'whitey'

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yt

So he's literally taking the piss out of the core Topshop demographic, 15 year old white girls.

But NOOOOOOOOOO what this narcissist fuckwit wants demands is FAR more important than actual fucking customers.

The thing is, I do accept that dysphoria about one's sexed body is a real thing. Quite what causes it I think is still up for grabs - it could be social, due to the fact that our society insists on rigid demarcations between masculine and feminine ("gender" in the old social sciences sense of socially sanctioned roles and stereotypes deemed appropriate to one biological sex or the other), or it could be physiological, or it could be a mixture of both. (I think there has to be at least some social component, insofar as anthropologically transgender seems to be more prevalent in societies with very rigid gender rules).

And the genuinely dysphoric transexuals generally just want to get on with life quietly. They are being failed by this wave of transactivism as badly as women are - because all twerps like travis are managing to achieve is to stir up a massive backlash - aimed at the twerps, but sadly encompassing the genuinely dysphoric along with them. Quite a number of transwomen (Miranda Yardley for instance) have written about this.

Because the trouble is the trans umbrella now encompasses anyone who feels like it. On Stonewall's own definition of trans, I could quite legitimately claim to be trans. Because they define "cis" as someone whose internal gender identity lines up with their biological sex. Well, I don't have any feeling of internal gender identity - hey presto, I'm "agender" which falls under the trans umbrella. Or I could go down the line of saying "well sometimes I wear dresses, but mostly trousers, and though I do like baking which is quite girly, I do hard mathematical science for a living... so I must be gender fluid, or non-binary, or whatever..."

Of course I'm not - I'm simply me, a biological woman.

The whole movement has become ridiculous - and genuinely trans people are getting shafted too.

Man wants to use women's changing room in Topshop. Told "no". Man has tantrum. Men now allowed to use women's changing room. Women who object can shut the fuck up. Right. Got it.

He's mocking women by doing a simpering selfie in a mirror and saying that he is being a '15 year old whitey girl'

Not women. Girls. 15 year olds. V specific.

Bimbap you can see both sides of the argument? But isn't it interesting that one single person with a penis stamps their foot and instantly get what they want, and the other side of the argument who happen to be female can all just shut up and move over. And if they do get assaulted then you'll be pleased to help? Have you even considered a basic risk assessment here, or have the faintest plan in place of what you're going to do if you have to pick up the pieces of an assault on your premises? That publicity is going to have a rather large impact, isn't it?

You may be interested in the article in the Guardian this week - actually posted as a positive inclusive article written by a guy who likes wearing/buying women's underwear. He mentions how, having made sure the female staff know he wants it for himself and got their help, he likes to wink at them and smile to say 'I know you're not enjoying this but I am'. If you seriously think that men (and I'm not talking about trans people) will not exploit this ridiculousness to use women and girls as props in their sexual fetishes then you need to responsibly do some research before making half baked decisions. Look up for a start the hugely disproportionate number of serious sex offenders (all of whom have lived as men well into their adult lives) registering as trans. They're quite open about their reasons, the prison service have posted a report on this, and it includes easier access to victims. If the sex pest trying on women's underwear in your changing rooms is having a lovely time winking and smiling at women and making them uncomfortable, what can the women say to you? He's smirking at me? You won't be able to do anything about that kind of intimidation and harassment. There will not be damned thing those women can do except leave.

Women and girls will be forced out of these spaces. This is utter lunacy, it's not progressive, you might as well start selling bustles and corsets. And this is the problem too: the legislation regarding self identification hasn't even reached a discussion in parliament yet (please see the meeting held at westminster this week regarding HUGE concerns about the proposed bill attended by MPs) but shops and agencies are already acting as though it's a done deal. Women and girls have a right not to be used by people with penises to validate their needs, whether sexual or otherwise. It's alarming that you don't agree.

Not women. Girls. 15 year olds. V specific.

Yes and then flouncing to Topshop and making a big scene that he MUST get changed with the 15 year old girls.

dailycaller.com/2017/10/19/transgender-person-convicted-of-sexually-abusing-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom/

Well quite.

Also why is he having snaps taken hand on hip modelling pose in the children's section of a bookshop?

I mean are we not allowed to point out when people seem a bit odd any more?

Formerly are you not kicking up a fuss? Me disagreeing does not mean this thread is not a fuss. If you so chose you could also go public and complain, much like he done. This does not mean that I need to agree with you, which is all I am doing.

stitch to me it means being aware of ones own gender identity and whether or not this correlates to their biological sex. There is research to show that people chose their own gender identity as much as they do their sexual orientation or organs. Gender identity is formed by the age of three, caused largely in part by hormones and biochemistry.

Pony no one is telling you to shut up about keeping women safe. It’s what we’ve all been discussing the past hours.

Sailor "nd women not being safe around men is not an important message to pass on. The message should be to be careful"

Same thing.

I'd also like to say, as per others, that if Travis isn't comfortable to change clothing in the men's changing area, they should understand why they were turned away from the women's.

Go Travis. Keep up this type of thing and you will completely undo any kindness felt towards the gender fluid or trans community. Well done. You are setting things back for people who just want to get on with their lives.
If the men’s changing room is dangerous, why is it ok to have a man in the women’s changing room?
Makes absolutely no sense.

But what does his gender identity or 'internal gender awareness' have to do with changing rooms? You seem to be suggesting that validating the feelings of Travis is the priority here, is that right? Regardless of how biological women and girls feel, Travis's internal gender awareness comes first.

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot

The best friend in that picture is the one that calls little children minxes and that they know exactly what they’re doing to him.

This man at top shop is a professional gender warrior. He is perfectly confident that he can bully Topshop into changing their policy. And he’s crowing about it.

He loves the fact they he can bully women. It get’s him off.

@bimbimbap

This is a PR nightmare for Topshop.

I would advise very strongly against a knee-jerk reaction.

The best thing to do is to say you are working on providing additional facilities for gender neutral and trans-people. And allocate one cubicle for the purpose. Away from the female area. I realise it will cost money, but, in the long term it’s a lot cheaper than being sued for peeping toms, etc.

They still won’t be happy with it, but at least you can say publicly that you trying to satisfy the needs of all your customers. Any tantrumming after that will reflect badly on them, not you.

The other thing you need to know is that Topshop are perfectly within their rights to refuse this. There is a clause in the equality law that says if it affects the other customers, you can do it. I believe someone has posted the exact wording upthread.

Many people aren’t actually aware of the law about this. The swimming pool that shut down their women only session, re-opened it on the basis of this clause.

Unfortunately our culture has overtaken the law, but you can make exceptions.

Top shop is huge. If you have any clout, I urge you to take this up the food chain. Target in America changed their fitting rooms to unisex and their share price plummeted as a result.

This is the bottom line isn't it, is that way too many men in the world like to show their willies to the ladies and for that they need a bit of cover, of privacy.

So changing rooms and public toilets can join public transport during less crowded (or paradoxically extremely crowded) times and that group of bushes in the park as being places where a young lady about her business might will expect to be confronted with a man wanking it.

Do we really need to tiptoe aound this? There are way too many pervy men in the world and we really don't want to be giving them more opportunity.

The person making the fuss isn't a brave trans person who has suffered horribly and is making a stand for everyone's rights, for acceptance and rights. They're a self aggrandising entitled twat. That's the entire point of the thread.

Do people's young dds know what all these terms mean? Queer gender fluid transfemme etc and that the etiquette is to ask someone what their pronouns are?

Genuinely curious. Not sure every young girl in topshop would, especially if there just before secondary school or with sisters / mums.

Kind of resent having to explain it in the presence of a Travis who wants to hand on hip selfie in front of them talking all these terms people have come up with that they want to promote.

@OldPony please stop.

People agree with your points about womens safe spaces being invaded and all this being wrong, but your trans comments are well out of order. Are you trying to get banned from mumsnet?!

Yes he just linked to the case of a FIVE YEAR OLD BOY who was being forceably transed by Mermaids until a judge told them to cease and desist.

www.change.org/p/a-court-justice-for-a-young-trans-girl-that-has-been-taken-from-her-mum-forced-to-live-as-a-boy

Apparently "the judge used arguments such as that the kid now liked Spongebob and the Power Rangers and was liking certain traits associated with men or boys. " which is 'completely unacceptable, outdated and based upon old fashioned ideas about gender roles and behaviour.', except for when it comes to men in dresses and stripper wigs telling you they are definitely 100% women, which is not old-fashioned at all, oh no not in the slightest.

I agree this man in question is a twat, but the nasty trans comments are uncalled for.

Oh is that that ?Alok guy who wrote something really paedophilic and then got all poor me when he was challenged on it? Yeah he's definitely a great person to stick in with a load of girls.