To alert you to the fact that Topshop just changed its policy to let men into the women's changing rooms

[YouStoleTheBowlFromTheRoom]

Been made aware of this today: a 'gender fluid' man having a pop at Topshop because he wasn't allowed to use the women's changing rooms at their Manchester store:

twitter.com/travisalabanza/status/927198660089339904

Topshop have now been quoted as apologising to him, and saying they've changed their policy to get rid of sex-segregated changing rooms altogether.

Another shop to strike off the list. Am I the only one worried this is past the point of no return?

Agreed HarryHarry good post.

I think this is worth repeating

So what does travis have to worry about changing in the men’s and why was he placated?

You simply cannot have it both ways! If the men’s changing room is scary because there are men in it when a man says so why is the women’s changing room not scary when those same men are in it when a woman says it? Which is it? If the men are safe to be around then travis shouldn’t have been allowed into the women’s, because the men’s is a safe place for him to be.

If he's allowed to make a big deal out of it then why aren't we sailor?

WOMEN... KNOW YOU PLACE

Namow sex and gender are different things. Sex denoting the reproductive organs and secondary sex characteristics. Gender denoting the socially constructed roles. There are many articles on it.
Female sex.
Female gender.

"Biology is not a belief. Female and male are determined by your genitalia and chromosomes. Not what you wear, not what hobbies you do and not how you feel."

Chromosomes, huh? I bet you'd never even know if you saw a person who was in a female changing room and was genetically XY with androgen insensitivity syndrome.

So Travis likes to dress up as a 15 year old girl, and we are expected to believe he isn't getting any kind of kick out of accessing a space that is overwhelmingly used by teenage girls?

Nope.

No WAY am I getting changed in front of men!

'Gender fluid' or not.

If this person is gender fluid, why not just get changed in the men's changing room?

I think I will start a petition to allow women to go watch men having a pee.

I bet you'd never even know if you saw a person who was in a female changing room and was genetically XY with androgen insensitivity syndrome.

Women with chromosomal disorders are still women. It would also still be impossible to change their chromosomes so that other posters point still stands.

"Gender denoting the socially constructed roles."

But this is the heart of the issue. Gender is not something (pace the trans ideology) that I choose - it is something that is imposed on me. Imposed and unwanted. None of us conform to gender stereotypes.

But all this man seems to be doing is saying "on some days of the week, I fancy pretending to adopt female stereotypes." He's not changing himself into something new, into a woman, into an intermediate state, into some sort of "fluid" amalgam of man and woman by doing this. He's just acting out a crude parody of the gender stereotypes society uses to keep women in their places and limit their potential. What he's doing is at heart no different from Les Dawson hoiking a pair of fake boobs onto a pretend garden fence while he mouths stuff about his "problems down below" to Madge. Except that Les Dawson was actually quite funny when he did this.

Allowing men into the women’s changing room doesn’t change travis situation at all. It just means he can choose between two rooms where men are. He has now made it so that he isn’t safe (according to him) in any changing room in Topshop. Instead of approaching Topshop and saying “look, I don’t feel comfortable using the men’s changing room, I feel intimidated because of my transgender status, is there a way you could create individual changing spaces for anyone who feels like I do?” He just tantrummed and made his problem (at risk from the men) everyone else’s problem as well. He hasn’t actually solved his (supposed) problem.

Most people are making a big deal out of it because apparently having mixed gender changing rooms aren't safe and they are a safe haven which are being destroyed. This is despite many shops and facilities having mixed gender changing facilities for years without a bloody complaint. Why are you complaining now? Are you boycotting all of these shops and facilities or campaiging to have them changed? Why now?

As for the scenario described if he is a man that identifies as a female, why should he be forced in to using a changing room that does not meet his internal gender awareness? If all changing rooms were mixed gender we wouldn't have these issues.

However many people will not get past their bias, hysteria or lack of belief in gender and sex dysmorphia. They will continue to believe all men wanting to use a female changing roon must be doing it because they are a sexual deviant and predator. They will continue to pass on the belief that women cannot be safe around men.

I have to say that I find the conflicting messages women receive very confusing.

On one hand we are told that we need to keep ourselves safe and not put ourselves in risky situations. On the other hand when we do attempt to do exactly that then we are labelled hysterical transphobic man haters. We just can't win.

He doesn't have a problem, he just wants to be special, because it's not enough to be a 'black queer man', as he was, he has to be even more special and be a transfemme, non-male, non-female, snowflake.

" if he is a man that identifies as a female, "

he isn't.

He's a man who says he is neither male nor female.

Bit who does like to "dress up" as a 15 year old girl for Halloween.

Yes that all sounds super wholesome.

What does "yt" mean in that post he made?

Sailor "They will continue to pass on the belief that women cannot be safe around men."

An important belief to pass on. Women only spaces were fought for a reason.

Were you the poster who mentioned "moral panic"? I don't have moral panic, I have suspicion based on experience.

But not bit!

And eventually it comes back to those having body dysmorphia or being transgender are perverts and it all being a fetish.

And all my points come from also being a rape victim, victim of domestic violence and years of psychological abuse.

Again, prickly many people believe biological sex is something we do not chose whereas gender is an assigned role based on our sexual organs. I never chose my sex, whereas you believe it is gender.

IT'S NOT ABOUT A CHANGING ROOM. IT IS ABOUT A MAN DEMANDING THE RIGHT TO ACCESS A WOMAN'S SPACE BECAUSE HE SAID SO.

In this instance it was a changing room. What about when it's a toilet? Or a hospital ward? Or a refuge?

The man in question doesn't even identify as a woman. So I ask again sailor why is he allowed to kick up a fuss yet we can't?

Why should he be forced into using a changing room that does not meet his internal gender awareness?

Can you explain what you mean by this please? What is internal gender awareness? How does a changing room meet this need? Why is 'internal gender awareness' being prioritised over actual biology?

As long as no one opens my curtain I don't care.

Bit harsh @oldpony

I mean I agree with some of your post, but not the attack on trans people.

Slim no, I wasn't.

And women not being safe around men is not an important message to pass on. The message should be to be careful.

As I said I've used mixed gender changing rooms for years without a second thought. If you believed half the posters on here as to how unsafe this is I should have been a victim of many sexual crimes by now. My own rape and abuse was not down to anyone who I came across in a bloodu changing room.

I've changed next door to men of all ages, women of all ages, families. I've uses changing facilities that men and women who were parents, coaches, staff and the general public had access to. I've sat next to strange men, of all ages, in nothing more than a bloody swimming costume and top. Never once was I told that thos wasn't safe. As such I do not have this ingrained attitude that sharing these spaces with men is not safe.

pony can we you not derail the thread with transphobia please. A lot of us have a hard time getting people to understand you can stand for women’s rights and NOT be transphobic. Really doesn’t help.

As for the scenario described if he is a man that identifies as a female

He isn't. He's a man who describes himself as being gender fluid, ie neither male nor female.

why should he be forced in to using a changing room that does not meet his internal gender awareness

WTF does this even mean?

If all changing rooms were mixed gender we wouldn't have these issues.

But I thought that the argument was that transwomen can't use men's facilities is because they'd be at risk of assault or abuse at the hands of violent men. If this is the case then those violent men would then be in the unisex spaces with the transwoman so how exactly has the unisex space actually solved anything?

They will continue to believe all men wanting to use a female changing roon must be doing it because they are a sexual deviant and predator.

What other reason would a man use a woman's changing room when there's a male one available?

They will continue to pass on the belief that women cannot be safe around men.

Yet women are constantly told that we need to keep ourselves safe. Funny that.