to think that someone is in for a bollocking tomorrow

[Worriedobsessive]

which they richly deserve!

Difficult families?

That said I would not have worded the ad that way as it just feeds the hateful them and us culture. I would probably say ability to have difficult conversations with parents.

Which would have been much more appropriate and less inflammatory.

Oooh, this is going to cause some ructions .

It may have been better worded thus:

“The ability to work with families who have been shat upon repeatedly by the system. Families who feel isolated and a burden on others. Often single mums (because the dad fucked off long ago when the going got tough) who are exhausted financially and emotionally after years of trying to do the best they can under piss poor circumstances. Families who have been pointed at and jeered in supermarkets because their child sticks out like a sore thumb. Families whose kids have been bullied for being different. Families who are fucked off to the eyeballs with having to beg and scrape for every...little...thing. And families who should then feel grateful for next to nothing after a long fight to get it....only to find that 12 months down the line, thanks to cutbacks, the service is scrapped.”

Yep, that about sums up how I’d word it.

Sukithedog big hugs x

Thanks Worriedobs. It’s a fair account of the reality in dealing with these professionals though, isn’t it?

It’s exactly the same story as with the NHS though - you are labelled difficult and unreasonable for daring to demand adequate care. No wonder it has become a ‘them and us’ dynamic when their job is essentially to safeguard their budget.

'ability to work with families with complex needs' would be a better way to describe this. This sets it out as a problem to solved not a battle to be won.

That is how a professional would operate.

Does anyone know, has the original ad been withdrawn/amended?

Yes, I read somewhere that the agency has apologised and withdrawn the ad.

How very good of them

Addressing difficult families was a Tory policy - research had shown that it was a small number of families that had a number of challenging behavioural practices - nothing to do with SEN - around worklessness, crime, anti-social behaviour, health issues etc. Advert perfectly reasonable within this context.

It's a job advert for someone to write ECHPs senior. For children with SEN. Nothing to do with multiple deprivation.

Except some children with SEN do come from families like that.

That's true of any group you could mention brasty.

The nearsighted, the flat footed, the bald. Any of them might come from troubled families.

Recruitment advertisements for opticians, orthopaedic specialists and trichologists don't carry a "difficult families" clause. (And they have more client contact.)

Why should one for an ECHP writer?

Especially as many of these families do abuse drugs and alcohol, and doing so in pregnancy puts you at higher risk of having a SEN

Are you using SEN interchangeably with "learning difficulty" there, then? Your ignorance (and if I may say so, your nastiness) is showing.

"SEN" encompasses a wide range of physical, sensory, developmental and learning needs. All of those children will need ECHPs if their need is strong enough. Some of them will be intellectually gifted. Many will go on to top universities. Others will go on to supported environments. Your generalisation is very narrow.

This is a poem I wrote about a pasty I bought in Greggs the other day:

Oh Pasty,
You are so nasty.
Is it because you are thick
Or just a total prick.

Beautiful cat, bravo 👏 👏 👏😊

I will nominate you for MN laureate if they get around to having one

I have worked for years in the NHS trying to deliver medical treatment to a very difficult subsection of patients. A few were ok, the rest non compliant and very hard to work with. They often lied, they didn’t comply with instructions, sometimes they didn’t turn up. Sometimes they were aggressive. (They were using drug addicts if anyone is interested). They were astonishingly difficult but there is NO WAY that my job description would have called them that. No way they ever would have been labelled that before we met them. It would have been unfair and inappropriate.

It is ignorant and also discriminatory. I knew most were hard work but I didn’t go to every new patient with that attitude. I also knew why they were hard going.

It is so depressing to see that the job description written like that and so many people agreeing it is fine because apparently lots of us are difficult.

If you were working in a department where people did often get upset and difficult but they also were mainly a certain race or culture, would they think it is ok to say you need to be used to difficult people working with this lot??? They bloody would not!

But the disabled and their carers, well, we are fair game.

I am well aware that SEN includes a wide range as you outline. And that SEN occurs for a variety of reasons. But for some SEN's alcohol and drug abuse increases the risks.

Not enough to warrant the wording, especially when you consider that the likelihood of gaining an ECHP diminishes as you move down the income scale.

About 100 years ago they spoke of problem families.
In more enlightened times it became families with problems (still patronising)
People don't ask for a service because everything is ok. Sometimes the difficulty is caused by the need, sometimes the reverse, expect people to be stressed, the situation creates it. Lack of support perpetuates it.
Just think it could be anyone, even you who has to ask and beg even though you paid your taxes. It's happening in lots of fields.
Now we are back in the dark ages and it's ok to blame the victim and discriminate between deserving or not again.
If you can't stand on your own two feet then stand on your own two knees. Or better still lie down and die. Difficult? I should coco.

Bang on missing, sadly.

(I haven't heard "I should coco" for years. I love that )

I am involved with the EHCP process. And you know what? Some families are difficult. The ad isn't saying that all families are difficult. Most are lovely. The vast majority are lovely! But some families? They swear, they verbally attack, they're nasty, they lie, they don't engage, they don't have their child's best interest at heart. And it's really shit. And you need to have the skills to deal with these situations. The ad is only telling the truth. It doesn't say 'all' families are difficult. It says you must be able to work with difficult families. It's a shame that some families don't care as much as the majority cares. But it's true.

@brasty
Are you suggesting some of us have caused our children’s SN because of taking drugs and boozing?
Really???

But other job descriptions aren’t so judgemental or labelling.

I have never read a job description that describes service users as “difficult”

Because it shows a dismissive, judgmental and negative attitude towards a group of people. You know, the kind of shitty, dismissive attitude people are not meant to hold, let alone display. The kind of opinion that wouldn’t be tolerated by any other minorities. But them tricksy disabled types?
Fuck those difficult arseholes.

Yes, it can happen. Child and family still need service tho, and help not judgement