To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

Well women complaining about the transactivists don't accept the 'cis' label so that's clearly not true.

What do you suggest women should do about their concerns, saga?

Why don't you shuffle off to argue and criticise transactivists then? Given you agree they are detrimental to transwomen who are not sexual fetishists.

Saying that MN is Transphobic and hates Trans people is like saying that Islamophobia is about being frightened of Muslims.

Both statements spectacularly miss the point and the word phobia is completely misapplied.

Why don't you shuffle off to argue and criticise transactivists then

Because this thread is on MN and it's an AIBU about 'the sheer amount of hatred towards transpeople'?

Don’t hate transgendered people. Just don’t believe a man can become a woman and vice versa.the words Woman and Man have meanings, transgendered people don’t fit that description. Women only spaces are segregated by sec not gender. If you have a penis use the male toilets if not use the female toilets. It’s quite simple.

"This is a thread about transphobia on MN. I am discussing transphobia on MN."

But without giving any examples of transphobia on MN.

Could you possibly address my earlier question? Do you think that there is any potential negative impact on natal women from the trans agenda? ( I thought hard about a better word than agenda, because I know it has negative overtones, bu I coukdn't find one, sorry)

What are the generalisations that you hear that you have concerns about?

Any ideas? What can I do about my concerns and feelings about males, both trans and non trans, invading women's spaces, as a rape survivor, saga?

sagamartha

My agenda is concerns about the effect of some comments and attitudes on MN towards transwomen in general and the effect this has on the way transwomen are perceived by others in daily life and the prejudices they encounter.

But Saga, that not the fault if women. Women are responding to violent activism and law changes.

This is a reaction. It’s entirely rational.

But without giving any examples of transphobia on MN

I said there are no transphobic posts but there are some posters who give a negative generalising view of transwomen as a whole which can possibly lead to negative perceptions and prejudice towards transpeople with a drip drip constant negativity and stereotyping.

What about the drip drip drip erosion of women's rights?

A woman does not have a penis.
The trans agenda scares the hell out of me!

I said there are no transphobic posts but there are some posters who give a negative generalising view of transwomen as a whole which can possibly lead to negative perceptions and prejudice towards transpeople with a drip drip constant negativity and stereotyping.

Which would be entirely impossible without any evidence or material.

Why don’t you give transactivists to stop.

Then we can all go home.

*tell

So where are the negative, generalising posts, then?

"I said there are no transphobic posts but there are some posters who give a negative generalising view of transwomen as a whole which can possibly lead to negative perceptions and prejudice towards transpeople with a drip drip constant negativity and stereotyping"

So when you said "hatred and ignorance"......

Are bats women allowed to express any concerns? Or is that just hatred and ignorance too?

What would help? If we say NATALT every time? I have encountered a lot of online transactivists. As a group, their misogyny, lack of empathy for women and entitlement is shocking. That is my experience.

So when you said "hatred and ignorance

I never said that - that's the AIBU thread title.

Op I haven't RTFT, but I hadn't given it much thought until I saw the Marsha P Johnson documentary, which was so sad I sat and cried whilst watching it.

I don't think anyone hates Transgendered people here, and I am going to sound ignorant, I apologise for this, but it seems like I can't go anywhere without reading headlines like "the term pregnant woman shouldn't be used because it may offend"

Now, I don't care who or what you are, if I meet you, I will be respectful and kind to you, I will use the description you like he/she/they. I will also not witness anyone to treat you badly because of who you are.... just like anyone ewe who could be victimised for being who they are,
But I do think that the transgender movement doesn't always help itself with the press it has. I dont agree with some people's viewpoints of what transgender means. My daughter is a tomboy, she loves faffing with "boys stuff" increasingly she is made to feel she needs to hide that part of her because it leads to odd types of conversations, it has been implied that she wants to be a boy, which is so flipping confusing to a child, she was maybe 7 when it first happened"mummy why do people think I want to be a boy?" Said my daughter who dressed up as her hero, her father- a construction worker for a dress up as your hero day. She said this with blonde hair almost down to her bum! People pick at things.
I also read an interview the other day, a celeb saw a documentary on tv as a child about being transgendered, and she thought at the age of five, she wanted to be a boy. She thought she wanted to be a boy until she was about 18. It's things like that, that make me believe it's confusing young children that this is such a big subject.

But honestly, I hope you are treated with the respect and kindness you deserve. I'm sad that there is a fight to be treated well.

saga

Are you trans? I missed that.

Are bats women allowed to express any concerns? Or is that just hatred and ignorance too?

Or even women who aren’t bats.

It's possible Saga may be a long time trans poster on here known for intolerance to criticism and paranoia about NATWALT? I'm just thinking the confusing and illogical arguments remind me of them.

I am a tolerant person that respects the rights of all people to live and express themselves in the way that most enables them to live a happy, fulfilling and healthy life, providing it causes no harm to themselves or others.

I am sick to death of seemingly no one being allowed to ask legitimate questions or raise serious concerns regarding the Trans movement without being labelled a bigot or a terf or transphobic or whatever else.

As someone who has been a woman my entire life, I couldn't actually tell you what it "feels like" to be a woman, but apparently there are all these men that know exactly what it's like, and demand to be treated as such at all levels, even when it doesn't make sense or infringes on (long sought after) women's rights.

It feels like another example of male privilege tbh, and I'm fed up of being told my experiences as a woman are invalid by men.

OP yo said

it’s easy to find if you look on any trans thread posted on mumsnet you have a very high likelihood of finding prejudice.

Here is the definition of prejudice.

prejudice
ˈprɛdʒʊdɪs/Submit
noun
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
"English prejudice against foreigners"
synonyms: preconceived idea, preconception, preconceived notion; prejudgement

I don't think you could accuse many of the MNers who robustly debate the Trans issue of having formed their opinions 'without reason', do you? They seem highly reasoned to me.

As an example let's use the fact that people who were born male, who have physical size and strength more usually seen in men with testosterone levels more usually associated with men are now competing against women who were born women in sport, and winning. At the risk stating the obvious, the whole reason most sports and athletics are segregated by sex in the first place is because men (on the whole) have a natural biological advantage over women in size and strength.

If anyone has an issue with people who were born male competing against women and using the male biological advantage bestowed on them (whether they want it and identify with it or not) while identifying as women, and I most certainly do, you can rest assured I did not form any opinions without applying reason, or actual experience of what is really happening.