To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

In answer to the opening post Curiositykilledthecat113, no I’m not shocked over the hate and ignorance over the trans ideology on here.

Because a) no-one hates trans people and b) everyone is very well informed, not ignorant at all.

If you could point to the hate and specify the ignorance, that might make your opening post sound more logical.

I don’t hate trans people.

I want to know what the concept of womanhood means to trans women. Is it about hair and makeup? A “feminine” aesthetic?

Is it about confirmation surgery and breast implants? Is it about your likes and dislikes?

Tell me what it means for you to live as a woman If you have been socialised in a male body (especially a white male body).

Also know that I don’t want to share female spaces with male bodied women.

Am I a terf?

“male bodied women”

What is a male-bodied woman?

As can be seen in any dictionary, Woman = Adult human female.

Adult human males are called Men, again easily found in any dictionary, even if they wear skirts & makeup.

I haven’t seen any real transphobia, and if there is any the option is there to report it and MNHQ can and do delete any comment they see as offensive. They’re very quick to act on it from what I’ve seen.

There clearly does need to be honest debate, though. Volume37 has made some very good points, and women have genuine concerns about safety in women only facilities, which are supposed to be safe places for women.

If transgender women do commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as men then that is very worrying and it’s not being transphobic to say so.

YANBU. I don’t read the trans threads on here anymore, just as I don’t read any of the male violence threads, or any threads in relationships..(the list is getting longer)

" just as I don’t read any of the male violence threads,"
Why not?

Can I ask a very simple question to the people who think there is a lot of transphobia on Mumsnet.

Do you think it is legitimate for natal women to raise concerns about the impact that self identification might have on them?

Just that.

Well it's been about 3 weeks since we had this post (again), and same responses are always 'where?'.
OP, add links to this thread and we can then have a proper discussion.

I think the re is a great deal of ignorance on MN - because there is little discussion of trans-inclusive policies (Stonewall a bigoted organisation definition - really?!?) and such characterisationa as there are, are of only the absolutely lunatic fringe,

That sort of lazy stereotyping would be absolutely unacceptable on any other subject.

Even on Corrie threads, Les Battersby was a joke, because he thought all transpeople were perverts and men in skirts etc. But now his views have taken root on MN to such an extent that all others are shouted down. Even though Hayley was much more reasonable and typical.

The TERFiness here means we have lost the reasoned middle.

"Do you think it is legitimate for natal women to raise concerns about the impact that self identification might have on them?"

To the same extent as it was legitimate for any other incompatible groups under Equalities legislation. So when a large group (all Jews, Christians and Muslims) are compelled to either abandon their religious principles or remove themselves from some forms of public life (provision of goods and services) van in areas where there is a plentiful and diverse supply if said goods and services; then of course it follows that one group has to put up with change because it impinges on another.

That the members of the currently concerned group might also have protected characteristics (such as anti-Semitism, or wiser misogyny) is unrelated to the times when they are the ones impinging on the rights of another group.

Or scrap the Equalities Act.

You do realise Hayley was fictional right? And, er, a woman.

What seems to be the problem with being a TERF? That is, a radical feminist who says transwomen and women are two different categories.

My views on prostitution etc mean I’m not a radical feminist but would have easily called myself TERF otherwise.

“Exclusionary” makes it sound like TERFs are being mean, excluding poor people from a fun club they should have the right to join, so in that sense it’s a loaded term. Otherwise, it’s fine.

If you think that people on mumsnet think trans people are just perverts then you’re either not reading what is being written or deliberately misunderstanding.

As for trans women being ‘men in skirts’ well they are, aren’t they? Unless of course you’ve discovered someway to actually change your biological sex.

I don’t think people are saying that they are ‘just’ that though, or that they should be treat with anything other than respect and have every right to live their life wearing a skirt without ridicule or persecution.
In fact it’s great for feminism to smash the ridiculous gender norms that have been opressing both men and women (but mainly women) for since, well forever.
However it is not good for women to claim that a man can turn into a woman, it’s not true and it takes away our ability to point out and talk about sex based violence against women.

I think any middle ground was lost when concerns were ignored by those in power who are making the laws.
I have contacted MPs and they treat me as a trasngenderist and don't discuss any misgivings I have about letting one sex identify as another eg in sport.

But there is a threat that women's rights are being eroded... in sports, prisons, women's refuges.
It's a fact that allowing people born as men into these spaces may impact women's success or safety.

I think that's a real concern, not hatred as such.

I don’t understand your post farahilda.

'Even on Corrie threads, Les Battersby was a joke, because he thought all transpeople were perverts and men in skirts etc. But now his views have taken root on MN to such an extent that all others are shouted down. '

Meditrina, you are saying there that the only view not shouted down on Mumsnet is that all transpeople are perverts. That is just so far from the truth I don't know where to start.

" just as I don’t read any of the male violence threads,"
Why not?

Because I can’t stand the attitudes of a lot of people that comment on them.

I don't quite understand you, farahilda. Are you saying that natal women who have concerns about the impact that self identification will have on them are similar to racists and anti semites who object to equality legislation? Or have I misunderstood you. My profuse apologies if I have.

I don’t think that self-identification impacts me at all.

DFOD

Dfod??

I don’t think that self-identification impacts me at all.

That's great. What about us who do?

DD has been labelled transphobic because she didn't want to date a tw. She's been called a vagina fetishist. She's a lesbian and therefore has no interest in dating someone with a penis.

She was first called transphobic when she was 15 and just realising that she may be gay. Instead of receiving support from the LGBT community she was ostracised by it. Consequently she was excluded and bullied (we're talking death threats, online and RL abuse, threats of violence etc) at a time when she was just figuring out who she was. She was a child ffs.

I've posted here before about her experiences under other NNs. For the record, she set up her school's first LGBT society when she was 15 and campaigned successfully to get safe sex for lesbian couples onto her school's sex ed curriculum. She also campaigned with our local MP when she was 16 to have a third option on official documents where someone is required to state their sex (something she now bitterly regrets being involved in). Transphobic she most definitely was not.

Have a look at the abuse TERFs get on social media. Think of how 40 year old TWs send death threats to 15 year old girls. Think of how if you're a gay woman you're ostracised by your peers for not wanting to have a penis inside you. Think of how some of DD's friends have done that very thing to avoid censure from their circle. Think of how some TWs coerce women into sex using the threat that if they won't, they'll make it known that the woman is transphobic.

Fuck it all. Seriously.

Chestervase who are you telling to DFOD?