To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

Yes absolutely cis is nonsense.

Women
Transwomen

Men
Transmen

That is all that is needed.

Cis doesn't just mean 'not trans' it apparently means that your gender identity fits your biological sex. So all the women who are gender non-conforming in any way and/or don't believe in gender as internal essence rather than harmful social construct? Not cis.

Not that that stops us from being told we are 'cis scum' and so forth regardless, though.

*The trans people I know are really dismayed by the narrative being pushed by TRAs and have no desire to be thought of as being identical to biological women.

Time for them to speak up then.*

Interestingly, when Trans people do speak up, they also get shut down. Blair White is continually called transphobic by the community, just because she acknowledges she is biologically male, and that a trans vagina is not the same as a biological females vagina. It is literally the statement of facts that now makes you 'transphobic'. It's honestly ridiculous.

(Here is one example of Blair White on this. Start at around 18 mins if interested.)

Here is Miranda Yardley, a transwomen, in The times, expressing their views and worries over the proposed law changes.

Miranda is a constant target by transactivists. Including hideous threats of every description.

So yes, there are gender critical transwomen, but again, they are rarely listened to.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/transgender-women-criticise-reform-xtp9n6mn0

I really like Miranda Yardley. I hope she can live the life she wants without discrimination - which mainly seems to come from transactivists.

I know, those poor transwomen. How lucky that women were/are never harassed, threatened, doxxed, abused and killed for speaking up and fighting for their rights. I mean how lucky that it never stopped them. Well, men are just not as strong as women, are they?

But yeah, Miranda is a total kickass! And Blair just gets off on mocking Riley. For peaktransing people I also really like Rya's videos btw.

Yeah, OP, I know. Horrible isn't it? All those women out there who just will not sit down and shut up no matter how much men tell them too.

When transactivists (note I say activists here) begin to love and respect biological women as well as be concerned for our safety I will return it in spades.

@SecretHandshake Oh Blair has apologised to Riley now; very high school, ha! I do think she is a total dick, but still a valid example of a trans person being called 'transphobic' for stating facts. Miranda is GREAT, and yes, Rya is good too - some nice pieces on how 'TERF' is used to silence women.

@MoistCantaloupe Whaaaat? It was only a week or two ago that Blair took the piss out of him for saying he was never male. And now they're buddies? How disappointing

Bloody love Miranda.

@SecretHandshake Oh it looks like she apologised 4 months ago for saying Riley isn't trans as she found out he's taking hormones. She always assumed (as I did) that he just had an eyeliner fetish. But apart from that, she's still ripping him. So we're safe, they still hate each other.

That FGM facebook thread has pushed me to peak trans (again)

@MoistCantaloupe Phew! I really started to worry!

Every few weeks there's this same post with slightly amended title.

This whole argument is a smokescreen. Your angst is with straight men. Wanting them to accept you, to love you as women, to want you, to be with you, to have sex with you. & that is nothing to do with biological women at all

We are just the perceived easy target and scapegoats, in true male socialisation and entitlement fashion; when you can't get or guarantee what you want, blame someone else you deem as weaker than you, and pick on them.

Unfortunately none of this will get you what you want - the full attention and gaze of straight men.

Most people know this and I'm so bored of the pussyfooting around what is so bloody blatant

That's my small contribution, aside from that I will do what I feel biological women should actually do en masse - realise it's not your argument, butt da hell out don't aid the satisfaction of misdirected venting.

I will go back to rearing my head only when you aim to invade biological women's spaces. Aside from that I can't much care

Since time began, the male of the species has used his physical strength to usurp himself over females. Men assume that they are superior to women - it's in their DNA. So it must come as a shock, Op, when women say sure, wear our clothes and make-up, but you are your penis are not welcome in female-only spaces.

And for the record, until scientists are able to transplant chromosomes, it will be impossible to change sex. May be that is what men mean when they speak of advance biology.

I was talking to DD about this thread (and the many, many others like it on MN) earlier. She tells me that certain sections of the internet take especial issue with MN's 'transphobic stance' and purposely join here to troll. It's no surprise at all, I know, but it's worth remembering when replying to OPs like this.

Some of the stuff they say about us is truly vile, she tells me. To get a flavour search things like 'Mumsnet TERF/trans/transphobic' etc on Twitter. They save their trolling plans for less public forums, however. Although I have seen a fair few transwomen on Twitter saying they have an MN account and use it - their threats, abuse and conduct towards women on their Twitter accounts leaves me in no doubt as to what they use their MN accounts for.

Some women are actively condoning violence by men towards women in the name of trans rights - or more likely, so as not to appear transphobic. We're under fucking seige and I've had absolutely, 100% enough.

Well if they’re trolling us they aren’t doing a very good job are they?

If they're trolling mumsnet they're not being very smart are they? Every time someone starts a thread like this (which is very very regularly) it leads to pages and pages of reasoned discussion from women, leading to more women waking up to the risks posed by self identification.

Yeah, the trolling doesn’t work. Or rather it does, but not in their favour.

Their first weapon is personal attack, and that gets them deleted and banned.

Their second weapon is...no, wait, that’s it.

And sure, occasionally you will get someone who actually engages. But as it tends to instantly peak anyone who’s lurking, it’s rather counter-productive.

My understanding of this terminology had always been that it aims to highlight 'woman' as a term of gender (so, dependent on social constructs) rather than biology. You may or may not be sympathetic to that aim, but that's one explanation for why 'biological' would not make a good substitute in this case.

But woman is a biological term. Gender is feminine or masculine (or neuter). It is perfectly possible to be a feminine man, for example.

'Cis' does not make sense. It is Latin for 'on this side of', and it is being pushed to mean someone whose 'gender identity' matches their biological sex.

This is meaningless, because we don't all have a 'gender identity'. Many of us who have already posted are strongly gender-critical and/or gender non-conforming. If a feminine woman in pink frills is a ciswoman, what about a butch lesbian? They would have very different 'gender identities', but are both very definitely women. Gender identity deals solely in stereotypes and doesn't affect actual, biological sex.

'Cis' appears to me to be more of an attempt to make the biological class of 'woman' a category of which 'ciswoman' and 'transwoman' are subsets (like old woman/young woman). Hence the avoidance of terms such as biological/natal woman, and the insistence that 'transwomen are women', 'anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman', etc.

BUT transwomen are not a subset of women! They are a subset of men.

'Cis' appears to me to be more of an attempt to make the biological class of 'woman' a category of which 'ciswoman' and 'transwoman' are subsets (like old woman/young woman). Hence the avoidance of terms such as biological/natal woman, and the insistence that 'transwomen are women', 'anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman', etc.

That’s exactly it.

We are all women, just that some are cis and some are trans.

That’s exactly the way it is spoken about. If you don’t include all women, you’re not a feminist.

By which they mean all women and some men.

It is to be resisted at every level. And I will never accept it.

No, they're not doing a very good job are they

It tends to be younger people - your typical Tumblr teen (sorry if that sounds condescending - oh wait, no I'm not). The OP's clear lack of knowledge of current affairs/legislation etc and their turn of phrase is what made me think he/she is very young, as I said upthread.

They link to threads like this and post screenshots (I've seen loads on Twitter) and whip each other up into a right tizzy. It's proof we're all TERFs and they feel for our poor, poor children (imagine being the trans child of one of us!). Oh, and of course they'd like to hurt/kill us all. Their concern for our DC doesn't stretch to the trauma of having a mother who's the victim of male violence, apparently.

Surely MNHQ are aware of all this - I'd like to suggest greater vigilance. But OTOH this sort of thread is excellent in that it shows them up for what they are, and illustrates how lacking in reason (and knowledge of things like, oh, I don't know - basic biology) they are. So let them crack on, I say

Agreed IsaacCrumbFavouriteSon

I also find it very hard to tell if some posts are satire or not before realising later on they're completely serious. Especially the ones about children.

I love reading threads like this because of the amazing intelligence of the women posting, the clarity of their reasoned points, the way they don't rise to the goady baiting, the true compassion they obviously feel for trans people but the understanding that unfortunately some of their requirements do conflict with keeping women safe.

They way they can so clearly state all the facts which are indisputable without any need to resort to aggression, name calling, threats of violence. You women are all inspirational to me.

I love being a woman. I will defend women's rights.