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To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

739 replies

Curiositykilledthecat113 · 04/11/2017 22:22

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

OP posts:
Arealhumanbeing · 05/11/2017 17:25

What is a male-bodied woman?

@CoteDazur

It’s a biological male who thinks they are a woman. Totally made up by me. I was trying to support a person’s right to “live as a woman” when born male. However I’m not exactly sure, on reflection that I do support it.

I have thought and thought and still can only see hair, make up, dresses and heals. I want a trans woman to join the thread and share exactly what womanhood means to them. Beyond their chosen aesthetic, what IS it that they are doing differently.

I am very confused and I am absolutely terrified of what the future holds for women.

Also I’m fine with being a terf.

HornyTortoise · 05/11/2017 18:44

Watching these conversations play out online is what first alerted me to the misogyny underlining the ideology.

Yes..when you are 'new' to this whole thing it is shocking. It was so strange when it all clicked into place for me. It was actually mumsnet that did it. The threads about that disgusting Ada Wells dude. Cuntscum I believe he called women. Then I searched cotton ceiling, as was suggested on the thread and my opinion on all of this turned around instantly. Now, when I try to remember how I was supportive of it all..I actually can't rationalize it in my head at all. basically, how could I be so blind and stupid?!

But yeah..watching it all play out, is still pretty shocking to me sometimes. This thread has been so strange, whilst familiar at the same time. Ignoring reasoned arguments in favour of twisting words and making things up and accusing people of being bigoted.

The trans agenda just does not add up or make any sense once you think about it properly. This is exactly why there is #nodebate about it. We know it, they know it. And every thread like this brings more people to 'peak trans'.

I genuinely hope the end is near, as it upsets me to think of all the poor kids caught up in this who are being experimented on, and most of them will end up infertile. Its horrible really. I expect so many lawsuits in 5-10 years time from kids who were 'transed' by professionals and their parents and now regret it.

UrsulaPandress · 05/11/2017 18:59

I am so sad that my beautiful 18 year old DD has drunk the Koolaid and bought in to the trans agenda. She sees no harm and thinks I'm a nasty old bigot.

Datun · 05/11/2017 19:03

UrsulaPandress

Asker if she thinks it’s right that it erases homosexuality as an orientation. That homosexuality is now transphobic.

UrsulaPandress · 05/11/2017 19:15

Oh Datun. Trust me. We have regular discussions but she is bizarrely blinkered. She has a FtM at school who now has a boyfriend. Great said I. A heterosexual relationship. I just get the eye roll.

Although tonight I did mention Bruce and his dds underwear and she accused me of being sick. Me?!?

Slimthistime · 05/11/2017 19:15

OP
What's your view on the proposed changes to the law please?

Sentimentallentil · 05/11/2017 19:17

I had this discussion with one of my best friends last night who is a gay man. He was annoyed that one of his post op transwomen friends had put up a Facebook status saying that straight men only wanted to sleep with her as they were transphobic so she was looking for gay men to have a relationship with.
He was horrified as he thought it was awful for her to be trying to guilt gay men into dating her as gay men fancy men and this person now had a vagina and not a penis so shouldn’t expect gay men to sleep with her, but then said it was transphobic for straight men not to sleep with her as ‘she had a vagina now’. He absolutely couldn’t see that a surgical vagina and a biological one are different and thought I was being hateful by saying that they were.
He said he’d seen it and couldn’t tell the difference, when I said maybe as a gay man who’s never slept with a woman or had a vagina he might not be the best to judge (never mind why was this person showing everyone it in the first place) he was like ‘well it functions like one even if it’s not exactly the same’. I was so horrified by this, no a place for a willy is not the primary function of a vagina.
He also said he definitely would have sex with a trans man which may or may not be true I have no idea but I find the double standards staggering!

Slimthistime · 05/11/2017 19:22

Sentimental " had this discussion with one of my best friends last night who is a gay man. He was annoyed that one of his post op transwomen friends had put up a Facebook status saying that straight men only wanted to sleep with her as they were transphobic so she was looking for gay men to have a relationship with."

Things like this make think Dump or whoever should just push the fucking button already. We passed the peak of human sense a while ago.

YoloSwaggins · 05/11/2017 19:22

I don't hate transpeople. I just hate the way their gains are at our expense.

Isn't this the sort of thing that was said about the Civil Rights Movement....

"Oh no they'll have to share the bus with us"

Bucketsandspoons · 05/11/2017 19:23

Transactivists wish to redefine women in their own image

I'd be interested to hear more about that?

What I see in much of the materials expressed online (most relevant to me because these are the groups actively circulating material, definitions, liaising with the NHS and government and regarded as leaders in policy change) and in the OP's posts, is that there isn't a level playing field or equality but a hierarchy of the category 'women' where transwomen outrank biological women.

There is a strong expectation of service to be provided by biological women in surrender of rights, language, unconditional approval and support, and that trans issues must be centered in all matters at all times, and this is explicitly stated (if it doesn't centre transwomen it's not my feminism).

Transwomen's feelings are described as to be accepted, treated with concern by all women and necessitating action. It is taboo to question them - on this thread it's been called 'unkindness'. Biological women's feelings however are seen as unimportant. Has anyone ever seen a trans organisation addressing, empathising with or even listening to women's fears about men in women only spaces? It's not only ok but encouraged that biological women's feelings should be treated with argument or dismissal, and the orthodoxy is that they should be forcibly overcome by legislation so women have to get over them.

The cotton ceiling is a strong example: (lots of evidence available on this via Google). The orthodoxy is that biologically female lesbians should be ashamed at their refusal to accept sex with women with penises, because this is upsetting and invalidating to the woman with a penis and denies them the sexual partners of their choice (biological women.) In this it is explained why it is ok for transwomen to specify they have a preference for biological women, but that biological women may not have the same autonomy or choice. The biologically female lesbian's feelings should be overcome by rigorously questioning and overcoming her learned invalid social prejudices (in one article on this, a transwoman who self defined as a lesbian stated with some indignation that they 'resisted the penis') and they have a duty to sexually provide for those women with penises. Their sexual attraction is irrelevant, it is about social duty.

Where biological women question or refuse to accept the rules of this status they are being unilaterally assigned, or maintain boundaries, they are named 'terf' (see the meaning and purpose of 'hate speech' and a generalised label to dehumanise a group) and a single brief Google of the term 'terf' or search on Twitter will enable you to find very easily indeed very frequent threats and comments about punitive rape, beating, punching, 'bloodying', 'dirt naps' and other euphemisms for murder, as justified towards non conforming women. This is towards women only . There are no such threats towards men, when the source of violence and murder towards transwomen comes exclusively from men. If anyone has ever seen a threat or suggestion of any violence from a biological women towards transwomen please do share the link. I haven't yet.

So in this hierarchy the women who were born with penises have rights and power over the women born with vaginas. They have choices biological women are justified as having withheld from them. They are entitled to threaten and commit violence against those biological women to punish non conformity. Biological women have an assigned role to provide support, run and cede facilities and organisations to do this, and to willingly accept their lowered status. The lyrics of Ru Paul's song 'step your pussy up' (lyrics of the first verse: all you biological women who used to have the upper hand) demonstrates this enjoyment and intent of not equality or joining but dominating biological women.

There are (very old) words for this.

UrsulaPandress · 05/11/2017 19:26

☝️️☝️️☝️️

Sentimentallentil · 05/11/2017 19:34

For the civil rights parallel to work you have to think that women as a whole have systemic power over trans people. Do you think that?

Also the way we made movements in civil rights was to break down the systemic structures that said one group of people should do a and another should b (not perfectly of course we haven’t won that battle yet) we didn’t say ‘oh if you want to ride at the front of the bus then you must be white now, and if you want to marry that person then you must change your race.
We still have white and black people we just try to let them do whatever they want.
Why then instead of breaking down gender are we instead trying to reinforce it by saying ‘oh you like dolls? You must be a girl then’, ‘oh you like trucks? You must be a boy’

It may seem progressive but it’s actually extremly regressive.

PencilsInSpace · 05/11/2017 20:11

The trans agenda just does not add up or make any sense once you think about it properly. This is exactly why there is #nodebate about it. We know it, they know it. And every thread like this brings more people to 'peak trans'.

What gives me hope is that I only see people moving from blind acceptance, through peak trans to gender critical - never the other way. I've never read any accounts that go, 'I used to be a gender critical feminist/terf but now I fully support the transactivist agenda'. Once you realise none of it makes any sense you can't unsee that.

We are slowly but inexorably winning this debate.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 05/11/2017 20:11

Apparently I’m a Terf becuase I will not accept that a transwomen is a real woman (fact backed up by biology) I will not accept that transwomen should be allowed in certain spaces that are for females, I will not accept that transwomen can redifine language that is used for females becuase they feel excluded and I will not accept that being a woman should be defined by males

If that makes me transphobic then so be it but I am a real women I have always experienced life as a female so I feel my knowledge and experience always trumps a male who feels they are female

PencilsInSpace · 05/11/2017 20:13

The only civil rights analogy that works here is Rachel Dolezal.

Datun · 05/11/2017 20:28

Bucketsandspoons

Excellent summary. Entirely accurate.

hooochycoo · 05/11/2017 21:06

Fucking hell. This is all abit mental

ArcheryAnnie · 05/11/2017 21:09

Er, YoloSwaggins, no, what?

The Civil Rights Movement was about people who had the least structural power agitating for their right to have an equal share. Whites who opposed the Civil Rights Movement did not want to give up even the tiniest bit of their own privilege or control over Black people.

The Trans Activist movement is about the group of people with the most structural power - males - telling the group of people with the least structural power - women - not only that women should give up the rights and spaces that they have won for themselves over many years, but that they should also shut up and pretend that they, the women, have been the oppressors all along. It's theft AND gaslighting.

KalaLaka · 05/11/2017 21:12

I have totally changed my perspective on trans issues. Reading things like Sam Smith saying that he's partly a woman as he likes heels and make up (may have paraphrased slightly wrongly) and realising that to some people, that is all that makes a woman, has made me question the entire issue.

What is female? How does a person feel female?

busyboysmum · 05/11/2017 21:29

Yes regressive is right. Check out Iran. You can't be gay there, they force you to transition. So then you can be in a traditional relationship set up.

Check out their women's football team. Spot the biologically born women...

To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 05/11/2017 21:30

The civil rights movement a movement to allow all people to have equal rights

The trans movement is to change equality it that redefines what being a women is regardless of how women feel and this movement mainly by white males

Can’t see any similarities myself

CAAKE · 05/11/2017 21:41

@Bucketsandspoons 19:23pm 👏👏👏

TammyswansonTwo · 05/11/2017 22:39

I've been on the same type of drug being given to children to block puberty. I was on it for other medical reasons, for two years in my mid 20s, and it has completely screwed up my body and hormones for the decade since. I don't believe for a second that anyone who's been on medication like this would be happy to give it to their children. We don't yet have a longterm understanding of the effects of using these drugs at such a young age and these kids are basically being experimented on. It's completely shocking and yet even attempting to discuss this would have me branded a TERF in most places. I am relieved to be part of a community where this can be discussed openly, and that does not equate to transphobia. There's too much contradiction that needs to be addressed.

OrderMeACurry · 05/11/2017 22:51

Did you miss the part where she repeatedly stated of her own accord that she has felt female since around 3 years old

I'm a transwoman and quite frankly I'm calling BS on that claim. 3 year olds have no concept of gender. I know I certainly didn't.

OrderMeACurry · 05/11/2017 22:52

Nobody wants trans people to kill themselves @toconclude. Quit being a goady fucker.