To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

what has been done to Jazz Jennings is effectively a chemical castration. The poor child will never experience any sex drive of any kind, she is effectively a modern eunuch. I think there is serious conversation to be had here around child safeguarding.

100% this. It's terrifying how quickly we're heading down this road with debate being stifled.

It's not anti-trans to question whether the treatments being given to young trans-presenting kids are actually in their best interests. It really isn't.

Bucketsandspoons

Excellent and comprehensive post.

How anyone can read that and not see a calm, rational viewpoint, is beyond me.

I would love to see the OP, or anyone who disagrees, just address these questions, for once.

Just once.

Because it never happens.

Just cries of transphobia and bigot in order to end the conversation.

It’s incredibly revealing.

ereshkigal

Im loving your optimism

Excellent post Buckets. I'm another poster who would love the OP to come back and discuss this in a calm, rational way. Unfortunately I think it's much easier to shout 'you're all transphobic!' than to engage properly.

Just cries of transphobia and bigot in order to end the conversation.

Which mainly boil down to ‘shut up women how dare you define what being a woman is’.

I'm with those who are sick to death hearing about women's rights being pushed aside to give priority to transexuals. I don't give a damn how you live your life but I do give a damn when I hear of trans men who have a history of sexual violence and still have a penis being put in a female prison. I do give a damn when trans men invade female only spaces, and I do give a damn when trans men come first, second and third in a woman's race.

stitchglitched
And why do women have to be disadvantaged even further to accommodate another group? Why should the rights of trans people to have their identity validated be prioritised over the right of women to enjoy safe sex segregated spaces?

I'm with the posters above.

And I actually think the majority of the population of the UK also feel this way. It's just that no-one actually knows about the proposed law change. As the OP has proven as they are interested in trans issues and even they didn't know.

I'll be interested the see the outcry from Joe Public once the bill is drafted. That's when the hard work begins......

Fabulous post buckets

I'd really, genuinely like to see a response to it

I have never heared a reasoned response on any forum from anyone pro trans to the very reasonable questions asked by women about this proposed bill and its implications. There seems to be a very concerning trend towards deliberately misunderstanding the difference between gender and sex to the detriment of women. It just alll feels like modern misogyny to me.

If you have any doubt that misogyny is motivating this, ask yourself why in some cases women are still not allowed to inherit before sons (primogeniture) and why even if they identify as a man they still can't

The OP appears to be busy. Such a shame, I was looking forward to learning a bit about 'advanced biology', seeing as I'm already quite well informed about the good old basic biology.

Re self declaration, Ireland have already changed their law so you can change your legal sex via a webform.

Other countries are / have adopted this approach also and as mentioned it's under consideration in UK at the moment.

Note that women have been campaigning for decades for different abortion laws in Ireland, with zero success. Interesting.

Whenever I've seen any debate which has been rare it has gone like this....

"I'm absolutely supportive of trans rights but I worry that self id will allow predatory men access to women in vulnerable positions"

"So you're saying all transwomen are rapists?"

"No. I'm saying some men are rapists and they would be the ones taking advantage of this law change. This would make the ladies as unsafe as the men's is now"

"TERF!"

I've never seen any acknowledgement that these are genuine concerns just shutting down of debate.

I've never seen any acknowledgement that these are genuine concerns just shutting down of debate.

Exactly.

Your questions just fall into a bottomless abyss of silence.

Boring! But generally people will get pissed off with any “cause” shoved down tgeir throats enough

I wonder if the OP started a deliberately goady post in order to try and collate the reactions she was hoping we would have.

She must be gutted.

YABU - but I gather the OP is long gone, having failed to provide any evidence to back up the incredibly goady title of this thread.

Watching these conversations play out online is what first alerted me to the misogyny underlining the ideology.

You can listen to women talk and reason. You can read the links and stats.

But actually watching the discourse as it unravels is the most persuasive argument of all.

I am shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about women amongst trans activists.

I too am shocked mrsknightly

Questions for me around:

• Sports
• Recording of crime
• Massive issues around kids - ? gay conversion therapy ? a way for girls to try to escape the way women are treated ? other mental health problems to be ignored ? the stuff about Jazz Jennings and the impact of the blockers was genuinely horrifying I got quite upset when I read it
• Prisons, hospital wards (I thought we had cross political agreement that mixed sex wards were a bad thing, and to phase them out, this contradicts this principle)
• Things to try and help women along - awards, women only shortlists, quotas, all of that stuff. We are already having our achievements taken away - article about first ever movie trilogy directed by women (Bridget Jones) was updated after complaints to say that the matrix was first even though the wachowski sisters were brothers when they made them, also the "first ever" front line woman story was angering because the person got the accolade before it would have been possible for any vagina type woman as they had only just opened it up to vagina type women and they wouldn't be able to get through the training as quick (person who got it was already doing the job). So all the years we fought to be allowed in, for this.
• Also the transing of historical figures pisses me off, basically any woman who stepped outside the incredibly tight gender roles of the past is being claimed as a trans man. So it greatly reduces the pool of women for our children to look up to - the idea that historical women who did anything of note must be men is just extraordinarily misogynistic. We are allowed to "keep" the women from the past who were famed for being beautiful or associating with rich/famous men in order to get on though. Obviously.

Anyone who can't see that this whole thing is based in a highly anti-women view, which is massively regressive in terms of furthering women and girls, has their eyes shut. Probably on purpose. Probably because they also see female as nothing more than 2D "non men" and so what's the problem.

it’s not really as simple as looks at penis or vagina wow I’m a women or a man

Yes, yes it is

Any woman who thinks it's not an issue
I suggest you lurk on trans chat forums
I was horrified at the hatred towards women. They don't want to be women they want to decide what a woman is

It was threads like this that opened my eyes to how trans rights can be used to trample over women.

While the women, calmly and patiently explain their concerns all the while reiterating that they do not wish trans people to face harm.

And then the counter argument is to tell them they are transphobic and fuelled by hatred - purely for acknowledging that transwomen are born male and therefore have male bodies and were socialised as men.

One deals in nuanced discussion.

One expects suspended disbelief and an ignorance of societal influence.

They don't want to be women they want to decide what a woman is

This. Transactivists wish to redefine women in their own image.