To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

Lol, I see the advanced biology term has appeared again.
Please educate us on this, OP.
And bear in mind, many posters on here are actually educated and/or employed in scientific/ medical areas.

*shit

*shit

OP why is stating biological fact transphobic? You're adding on value-laden commentary - they're not 'real,' they're 'weird,' but none of us have said those things. Seriously, how is 'people with penises are male' transphobic? Are biology textbooks transphobic?

Re: fitting in with gender - I don't believe in gender as an innate essence. Most radical feminists don't. Gender is a social construct which is used to justify and perpetuate an unequal power dynamic between men and women. Lots of the feminist women here on MN say we don't experience the feeling of a 'gender identity' at all.

Clearly, trans people do experience these gendered feelings in some way, but that doesn't make it true for everyone. Sex-segregated spaces are divided by sex, not gender, because of the objective physiological differences between men and woman, therefore someone whose sex is male but whose gender is feminine does not belong in female-only spaces. If you disagree with this and think I'm 'jumping to conclusions,' can you say why?

Advanced biology my arse

"But I try to be a decent human being". No you don't. You prioritise males over females, knowingly delude yourself and advocate putting women at risk which is rank traitorous behaviour in my opinion. Lie to yourself all you want, I won't be compelled to lie no matter how much abuse you chuck at me.

Is advanced biology a subset of alternative facts?

let me introduce you to “advanced biology” which is that mental illnesses such as gender dysphoria are the cause of transgenderism and it’s not really as simple as looks at penis or vagina wow I’m a women or a man

Fabulous, please tell us more about this 'advanced biology'

You are of course aware that it is widely considered as deeply transphobic to say trans is caused by a mental illness or that gender dysphoria is necessary to be trans?

Theresa May has pledged to press ahead with plans to let people officially change gender without medical checks, as she said “being trans is not an illness and it should not be treated as such”. From Our Dear Leader, no less.

Keep up!

I would also like to know more about this advanced biology that means mental health disorders overrule physiological facts.

'But I try to be a decent human being',

No you don't. You completely ignore the rights and well being of women and transsexuals in an attempt to virtue signal.

Advanced biology means postmodern interpretation of biology, which means it is whatever someone says it is. Jordan Peterson isn't wrong when he says that they are going to go after the biologists next

Why would you start a thread lecturing people about this issue when you don't even have a clue about the current proposed changes to the law which is the main concern and feature of the current debate? If you had actually read any trans threads on MN you would have heard of this and surely done at least a cursory bit of background reading before posting this.

In other news thousands of lurkers hit peak trans after finally finding out what OP's actual definition of transphobia is.

Ah, so yes, it is a subset of alternative facts. The truth is whatever I say it is, and we've always been at war with Eurasia.

Nowhere has it even been said that it would be as simple as “just saying” you’re a woman. Do you know anything of the transitioning process at all?

Open your eyes OP. It already is that simple. The law hasn't changed yet, but plenty of organisations are acting as if it has. Girlguiding UK will allow anyone to join so long as they 'identify as a girl or woman'. Schools and gyms are allowing people to use whichever toilets or changing rooms they wish to. e

I don't have an issue with trans people. I of course want them to live their lives free from harm and discrimination.

But as a biological female who does not have a 'gender identity ' or 'identify as a woman', I don't believe that they are the same as me. If 'trans women ARE women' and I'm not allowed to question that, well the logical conclusion is that I'm NOT a woman now that the meaning has changed. So what am I? What name can I give to the group 'biological females who don't experience gender identities'? How can I ensure that this group is counted, that our needs are met? Apparently even the desire to name and define this group is transphobic.

“Well I don’t hate trans people but I don’t want them in any of my spaces”

Transwomen can be in what I consider my spaces my home, office, gym, favourite pub, music academy etc) all they want. They are welcome, like anyone else. Where they are not welcome is female-only spaces like communal changing rooms, toilets, girls’ sports teams, women’s prisons, etc because they are not female.

“they’re not real women”

They are not. Check out any dictionary if you are confused about the meaning of the word Woman:

Woman = Adult human female

“I think it’s a bit weird”

Yes, it’s weird for a man to act like he’s a woman but there’s nothing wrong with weird. It’s also weird for a middle-aged atheist from a Muslim country to join a church choir but I just did that To each their own. Everyone is and should be free to do whatever makes them happy.

“I don’t want to really allow them to fit into the gender they choose”

Not true. They can act like they are Cleopatra for all care. Besides, it’s not up to us to “allow” them to wear dresses & makeup, is it?

“I’m not trans so i don’t get it”

Oh we do get it. You are the one who doesn’t get the very real issues and problems people are concerned about.

But you don’t support it do you stop lying to yourself. “Dress as a human” “person with a male body is actually not a woman”

So, if I've got that right, you are declaring that you know better than I do what I think? What the thoughts and reasoning are inside my own brain? And I'm supposed to accept that you know more than I do about what I think? And that me not agreeing with you about what you say that I think is proof that I hate transpeople?

How much more illogical could your argument be?

And no, I don't believe that men with male bodies are actually women just because they say they are. That's not bigotry, it's biology and language.

Anyone should be free to do these things without persecution but don't expect biological women to give up woman only spaces because a man has decided to wear sling backs and answers to the name of Sheila. A frock and a piece of paper means nothing. Do what you want but don't expect everyone to tip tie around your choices.
OP instead of feeling so offended by your fellow women why not put your energy and passion into something that really really matters like campaigning against the fact that defenceless women are brutally murdered on a daily basis, in every country, all over the world.
That women are victims of horrific persecution and prejudice at the hands of men. Women having to flee horrific violence in war zones to try and find a safe haven to protect and raise their children.

Women who are seen by men as nothing but to provide domestic care and sex. Would these things happen to a man because he had decided to rebrand himself as a woman? No of course they wouldn't. Just like he wouldnt be having 40 years of menstruation to put up with, chronic morning sickness, agonising childbirth, hysterectomy the list could go on and on.

My issue with MTF trans is that they seem to be fighting against women not with or for women. You would think they would be ardent feminists not the mysoginists that they all come across as

OP clearly knows very little about this subject, and is just spouting off. The fact that the she doesn't appear to have heard about the changes to the Gender Recognition Act, refers to gender dysphoria as a mental illness (which is supposed to an absolute no-no for trans allies to say), and thinks that 'trans' only refers to people actively going through transition, all attest to the fact that she's quite ignorant about this topic.

Trans only means they are transitioning between the gender they were and the gender they would like to be.

And therein lies the problem. Gender is a social construct which obliges people to perform to socially acceptable stereotypes of masculinity and femininity.

The legal protections which apply to women's rights are SEX-based, because in most cases there is a biological reason for their necessity.

The reason women are protesting the proposed law change which has somehow escaped your notice, is that biological men will be able to use their own gender-based beliefs to access sex-based protections, thus reducing or negating the protective effect on women.

YABU and goady.

For some reason women on this thread demonise trans people and turn their transphobia into some attempted womens rights concern but it’s easy to see through that guise

@Curiositykilledthecat113 what do you have to say with regard to the trans people who have demonised my daughter and threatened her with violence because she doesn't want to have sex with them? Because she's a vagina fetishist lesbian?

What have you got to say about the growing number of TWs who abuse lesbians and coerce them into sex? And the abuse women get for calling them out on it? The abuse teenage girls get? Children?

I'm guessing you're no stranger to what goes on. You seem to be a pretty clued up TA. You know what goes on - how do you defend it? How can you suggest it's not misogynistic, lesbophobic and horrifically damaging to women and young girls?

"For some reason women on this thread demonise trans people and turn their transphobia into some attempted womens rights concern but it’s easy to see through that guise."
It doesn't matter how often you say this-it doesn't make it true. If I ask a couple of questions, could you answer them, please?

1. Do you think transwomen should compete at sport beside natal women?
2. Do you think that a person with a penis should be able to use open plan showers in sports centres?
3. Do you think that if I was raped, I should have the right to be examined by a natal woman? 4)Do you think that crimes committed by transwomen should be classified as crimes committed by women-even if the crime happens to be rape? 5)Do you think that transwomen should be able to take up workplace initiatives designed to address underrepresentation of women?
4. Do you think that my elderly mother in a care home should have to have intimate care performed by someone who self identifies as a woman but is obviously male bodies?

We have to ask these questions and discuss. The answers may turn out to be that nobody has a problem with any of those things but we don't know because we're not allowed to talk about them.

person with a male body is actually not a woman

My offer still stands OP. £5 if you can give me a non-circular definition of 'woman' that includes both me and transwomen. I'll donate it to a charity of your choice.

Actually, strike that. You're clearly uninformed when it comes to current issues - perhaps you're just jumping on a bandwagon in order to be a GF. Perhaps you just get all aerated on Tumblr and Twitter and don't bother reading the news. You remind me very much of the teenage girls DD encounters on social media, actually. Do you mind me asking how old you are, OP?