To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

" ...ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing. "

Right then OP.... I notice you're not shocked enough to stick around though.

I can sort of see what saga is trying to say (I think) though. They seem worried that discussion of TAs and their documented agendas and behaviours will negatively impact people's views of non-AGP TG people.

However, IMO stifling debate will hurt those non-AGP TG people more than having it will. The lack of conversations about these issues is causing children and gender-dysphoric people to struggle to find appropriate mental health support and this will only get worse once the government bring in their "transgender is not medical" bill. (How transphobic of them to lump all TG people together like that...) and that support is something that the NHS will not supply as it isn't a medical issue.

So not talking about these issues is harming non-AGP TG people, as shown by posts on here from parents and gender dysphoric people who can not access counselling. But this is where saga's concerns come in that the discussion itself could negatively impact those people. An impasse.

But I would say that the people here talking about it care more about those people than the AGP TAs for whom it is all about them. And remember which group of transgender people are pushing for gender dysphoria to not be seen as a mental health issue.

Ereshkigal. That’s fine. I was simply answering a question someone posed.

"I don’t think that self-identification impacts me at all"

I don't think it affects me as an individual either. But it affects natal women in general, surely?

How about sport? Crime figures? Prisons? To name 3 things.

And that's before you take into consideration the impact on lesbians.......

Self-ID affects all women. You may not understand why or believe that the impact will be minimal or think women as a group are privileged enough to take it on the chin. It will change things nonetheless.

Yep, I don’t agree with you so I must be a man. There it is.

I’m out.

Skaros, are you really offended that one poster said you might be a man? Come on.

Yep, I don’t agree with you so I must be a man. There it is.

I’m out.

Strewth. It’s something that that’s all it takes for someone to disengage.

No wonder you have no idea about the impact of this stuff.

But it’s not just one poster. It’s become the standard argument in many threads. It’s a lazy, ridiculous and quite frankly insulting (to both me and men) argument.

Oh and the one that because I don’t agree I’m stupid. I’d forgotten about that one, thanks for reminding me Datum

Skarossinkplunger was constructing a logical argument. Their point was if you are not ...

(a) a man or (b) a woman who has no interest in sport and who is perfectly happy to be fully or partially clothed in the presence of an unknown male.

... then the self-ID will affect you.

Why would that offend you?

It's only one poster here though isn't it? What do you expect women to do about their concerns? Any ideas?

Oh and the one that because I don’t agree I’m stupid

She didn't say that at all. She said you didn't see the impact.

I’d I’m not flouncing. I said I didn’t read these threads, and I don’t know why I clicked on this one.

Sorrt i meant morningrunner was constructing a logical argument!

I don’t even have to go to different threads I can find plenty of transphobic comments on this thread:
“Therefore women might want to have their private spaces such as toilets limited to well..women. You know. People with vaginas.” It’s intolerant, if the issue was just having bathrooms based on biological sex that would be different, but the same people who hold this view hate transgender people and it’s glaringly obvious “limited to women, people with vaginas” I’m not sure how much clearler the intolerance can be here.
“Have seen people say they don’t believe a man with a penis is a woman just because he says so.”
“Have seen people disagreeing with the transing of children.” In most cases I would be inclined to agree with you but for example have you seen the transchild Jazz, can you deny that she sees herself and will continue to see herself as a female?

“Create a bloody transwoman category if you must but leave us be.” another example of intolerance “we don’t want your kind here” in other words.
“If there’s a trans woman in female spaces I will have no reservations in telling them to leave ” this isn’t just prejudice this is bordering on planning discrimination, there seems to be an assumption here (without factual backing) that trans people come into womens bathrooms simply to harm women.
The person then said “It might come across as rude. But I guess it’s more likely to be interpretative as ‘trans phobic’ which is tough really” :/

“And that's where the whole concept of feeling like the opposite sex baffles me. I can't imagine that transwomen actually want to be treated like women. “ Clearly biological women just don’t understand transwomen they think trans people are selfish because they didn’t have to deal with the negatives of being a women growing up and why would they want to be in this group now, but these people aren’t transgender and aren’t educated on it so that would make sense.

“I've never met a transperson to ask.

I'd certainly listen to them, I don't hate transpeople, I don't wish any harm on them. But I don't believe that a man's view of what it's like to be a woman corresponds in any way with what it's actually like to be a woman.” A lot of these people have never even met a transwoman to ask them themselves and base their opinions solely off the opinions of others.

Anyway I’m bored now so I hope thats enough examples for you, if not you can always read this post yourself.

There are lots of things that don't affect me but that I am still concerned about. I'm not a Muslim for example, but I still am concerned about anti-Muslim hate crime.

Skarossinkplunger

I didn’t say you are stupid. I said if you disengage over quite minor things, it’s little wonder that you don’t understand the impact.

It’s one thing to disagree. It’s quite another to say you disagree in one breath, whilst admitting that you don’t understand any of it because you never read it, in the other.

I don’t think that self-identification impacts me at all

Well that is nice for you. What about natal women who are directly impacted? Are they less important? (I have seen exactly this argument given - that natal women's experience is de facto easier and therefore less in need of consideration)

YANBU, OP.

I find threads like this really difficult to read and am posting this to be visible rather than get into a debate on the subject.

OP you quoted me in your post but your argument seems to be that because I don't personally know any transwomen I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

@IsaacCrumbFavouriteSon

A cousin of mine runs a support service and helpline for young lesbians. It used to get some funding from Stonewall. Their funding was removed after TRA lobbying - they won't tell the girls that they are transgender or that they are transphobic if they don't want sex with penises involved.

I really worry for young lesbians coming out at the moment. I don't see anything like this pressure on young gay men.