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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think "Breastfeed if you can" would be a better message

321 replies

ringle · 03/11/2017 14:28

... than "Breast is best".

I say this having start skimmed yet another thread where the OP was driven to post natal depression because of difficulties breast feeding.

PND is far more damaging to babies than formula.

OP posts:
HurricaneOphelia · 04/11/2017 02:20

You know what I hate most of all? The mantra (very prevalent on MN, as evidenced by this thread) that every woman COULD succeed at BFing if only she had the right support.

I knew that neither my GM nor my Mum had managed to BF and both were very upset by it (it caused my GM in particular to go into depression as it was pretty unheard of in the 1940s and there wasn't ready-made formula. Fortunately they were able to hire a specialist nanny who could make it from scratch - but my GM felt like a useless Mum and struggled with depression as a result :(

I was brainwashed by the NCT into believing that things would be different for me as I'd have the proper information and support. We got a lactation consultant (who was wonderful and really tried her best but had to admit defeat). I pumped - oh, how I pumped, both in hospital and back home. I fed my jaundiced, sleepy baby every 3 hours, religiously - this involved undressing him and putting him on a cold floor to wake him up, and spending at least an hour trying to get him to latch on. Then - as he was losing weight at a dangerous rate - I had to "top him up" with formula. And then wash up and sterilise the bottle feeding equipment, before expressing to boost production. 24 hours a day. I never slept more than 20 minutes at a time, 24 hours around the clock. A month old, my baby was still 10% below birth weight and I still expressed an ounce at a time, tops.

I managed to continue partially BFing my first for 5 months. The last couple of months it was just a comfort feed in the night, with probably very little milk.

With my second, I was DETERMINED that things would be different. And yes, he latched on like a pro in the birthing room. But there were complications which meant that I had to go back to hospital and we were separated. He was formula-fed as there was no other choice - and from then on he absolutely refused the breast. I literally spent my first 48h back home in a chair, trying to get my baby to feed. Eventually our Health Visitor arrived, found me in a state and told me some home truths: my husband was going back to work, my parents were going back home, I had a toddler to look after as well and a baby who still refused to BF.

I don't think I've ever cried as much, or felt like as much of a failure. With hindsight I blame the NCT and the whole "Breast is best" and "everyone can breastfeed if only given the right support" culture. They ruined my first weeks/months with both my children, pushing me into PND (with hindsight).

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/11/2017 02:25

You know what I hate most of all? The mantra (very prevalent on MN, as evidenced by this thread) that every woman COULD succeed at BFing if only she had the right support.

There are very very clearly women who can't. That shouldn't be questioned. But there are many many more who don't. Now, I defend the right of women to do what they hell they like with their breasts. But there are reasons that we have the worst BFing rates in the world. And women who can't BF when given support aren't the reason, because those women exist everywhere.

LilQueenie · 04/11/2017 02:26

"support each other" is a good slogan.

Seeingadistance · 04/11/2017 02:34

I like "your baby, your body, your choice" as suggested by a pp.

Pregosaurus · 04/11/2017 04:21

It’s very sad that women who physically can’t breastfeed feel bad - of course they shouldn’t, easy as it is for me to say. But I get it, because I feel for bad for all sorts of things I couldn’t control where my kids are concerned.

However, I agree with mrs terry it’s - the UK’s shitty breastfeeding rates are not down to inability. I’ve met enough women who were worried their baby wasn’t getting enough milk, or who didn’t get a tongue tie diagnosed in time, or who didn’t realise the baby had some issue unrelated to bf’ing and therefore gave formula, to feel pretty confident that better support would improve breastfeeding rates.

By support I don’t mean telling women to bf, ostracising those who give formula or making it difficult to give formula. I mean positive action - more bf’ing consultants, cafes and a more generally positive attitude to bf’ing. Even on MN a thread whining about women who don’t cover up while bf’ing gets a lot of traction and people agreeing. Fucking ridiculous. Anyway.

As for women who choose not to bf even tho they easily could... does a mother’s right to choose trump a baby’s right to the best available nutrition?

ethelfleda · 04/11/2017 05:35

I have to disagree with the accusation that the NHS doesn't provide enough support
In my very recent experience (gave birth to Monday to my first) they have been nothing but helpful.
I had a bf workshop arranged for Wednesday ran by the NHS which obviously I couldn't attend in the end so had even less experience and info when he was born. The midwife helped him latch on straight away. The nursery nurses on the maternity ward were incredibly helpful when it just wasn't working. They kept us in an extra night to monitor as I was finding it hard.
Midwife who visited the day after we were home helped me out greatly and left me a phone number to call if I was still struggling
Following day, someone called me from a mw led unit to ask how we were getting on and offering help
When I struggled again later that day, I called the number and they invited us in for some extra help (they'd have sent someone to our house if there was someone available)
We went in and sat in a lovely comfortable environment with a mw who bad all the time in the world for us and explained a few things I could try which were very successful.
Now I'm nearly 5 days in and with all the skills and confidence that I've had from the Nhs, we are really succeeding at it and I'm delighted. It has been invaluable.

I know for some women it would not be this easy but I just wanted to give my experience of the great amount of support that is available.

RicStar · 04/11/2017 05:38

For me bf was easy after the first couple of weeks, no cluster feeding / hours feeding. Didn't wake all night. No bottles to faff with. Took reasonable gaps between feeds. DH did everything except feeding. I really do not care how people feed their babies - mine had some formula too from 6 months. I stopped at around 10 and 11 months because I night weened and was at work. I think it's hard because some people think bf is the hard rightous choice of the zealous but it can be the easy- lazy choice too. However if you try and say that it undermined the challenges a lot of new parents do face I get that. So I would say - give it a go if you fancy it at all - it might be cheaper and easier than you think but if it's not for you then no worries, if you have some problems then you can mix or stop no worries.

berliozwooler · 04/11/2017 05:41

There shouldn't be any message at all, and just lots of support for women to feed their babies.

Anon8604 · 04/11/2017 07:14

There shouldn't be any message at all, and just lots of support for women to feed their babies.

Out of interest, how many other public health messages should be

Anon8604 · 04/11/2017 07:20

There shouldn't be any message at all, and just lots of support for women to feed their babies.

Out of interest, how many other public health messages should be abandoned in favour of just supporting people with their choices?

The NHS shouldn’t advocate people exercise regularly because those who cannot - due to disability or personal circumstances - will be made to feel guilty?

People shouldn’t be advised to eat five portions of fruit and veg a day because some people can’t afford (or think they can’t afford) fresh fruit and vegetables?

Parents shouldn’t be told that reading to their children has been proven to increase their chances of learning to read successfully because some parents can’t read or afford books?

Bubblebubblepop · 04/11/2017 07:21

Incidentally a few years ago on a similar discussion someone made a good point re the image of breastfeeding here and abroad. She said in the US it's about hot angelina Jolies and in the U.K. It's about fat hippies. Harsh but sadly I think it has a vein of truth

jaseyraex · 04/11/2017 07:44

I so wanted to breastfeed my first born but it was a nightmare. We were in hospital for a week and he was crying and starving for most of it, he just wouldn't latch on. I asked for formula and was told "no, he will take the breast if you just do it properly". Yet no one was actually showing me how to do it "properly". My husband went and bought those ready made formula cartons so that our poor son could have more than a mere sip of milk and put some weight on. (I did complain to the hospital about the treatment I received and lack of support, but sod all happened with it). With our second son I just wasn't prepared to go through all the tears and the starving baby and me failing like a failure. The midwife asked if I considered pumping. I hadn't, no one had ever mentioned that as an option to me. I exclusively expressed when he was born and it was wonderful. I was so happy he was getting my milk, but without the stress I'd felt trying to breastfeed the first time. DH could do night feeds here and there again too which was always a bonus!

Breastfeeding, pumping, and formula should be discussed at length in the lead up to giving birth. Maybe leaflets on all 3 given to mums with as much information as possible on them. Some people just aren't aware of the pros and cons or how easy or how hard it might be. We need to be reassured that no matter how we choose to feed, or what we may end up forced to choose, is okay.

welshgirlwannabe · 04/11/2017 08:01

Just for balance in case any pregnant women or new mums are reading:

Breastfeeding as a long term experience (ie past the first few weeks) can be easy, cheap, painless and incredibly rewarding to mother and child. The hard times at first are very tiring and can be difficult but then it gets better. There is no quicker and easier way to comfort a baby or child than sticking a boob in their mouth. It is portable, always at the perfect temperature, free, makes tiny babies go to sleep, and can burn 500 calories a day. Most of us are more likely to be physically able to breastfeed than not.

There are all just facts and not judgements.

streetlife70s · 04/11/2017 08:10

Sorry but the countries with the best breast feeding rates in the world, Sri Lanka and Rwanda have much much less support than we do in the UK.

They also have a much higher incidence of infant mortality and lower rates of infertility. Women in the West have much higher rates of polystic ovary’s diabetes, obesity and conditions that cause difficulty conceiving which has a direct impact on the amount of children born to mothers unable to breast feed.

Many people are underestimating or misunderstanding the direct impact of social and cultural contexts on physiology. We can not compare the physiology of females in developing countries with those of Western women. We are evolving differently and while I am absolutely not taking away from the experiences of those women who, were indeed, misinformed about supply and infant feeding frequency, it is of equal importance not to dismiss the very real experiences of women who tell us categorically they have been unable to do so.

I have been lucky enough to meet a friend from Eritrea recently and discuss breast feeding with her. Although rates there are lower than Rwanda and Sri Lanka she was able to give me a picture of what breast feeding looks like over there.

There are no official child minders, breast feeding councillors, NCT classes etc etc. I was surprised to learn that a new baby does not, in fact, sit on mothers breast hour after hour as she cries with bleeding nipples half falling off while she is expected to clean the house and run round after husband. Nope!

Fascinatingly for me I have learned she just hands baby to multiple neighbours to breast feed for the next feed or four then will perhaps give a night feed. This continues for weeks until her breasts feel better and as they ‘toughen up’ in their own time, the amount of time baby feeds on other women is reduced and mums milk picks up. Women in the community nurse for years, sometimes 3-4 years after their own child has finished nursing so they can feed other children in the community while mum rests and gently build up supply and ‘toughens’ her nipples up! And this was the thing she said, “If you do it alone you get stressed and then your milk stops”!!!

That is straight from the horses mouth. She has been here less than a year and finds our culture so closed and unhelpful for mothers. Over there, if you want to pop out somewhere you just give your baby to one of your neighbours. All the mums pop just chip in and help.

Now I don’t know anyone from Sri Lanka or Rwanda but our entire culture, community set up and advice for mums just so sit there and feed baby while suffering mastitis, cracked bleeding nippples and to ‘soldier on’, I think has a profound impact on our physiology over time. That doesn’t fully explain why UK has lower rates than anywhere in Europe but I do believe over time we are evolving in ways detrimental to BF and no amount of guilt tripping or leafleting is going to change that.

Bubblebubblepop · 04/11/2017 08:17

That's almost certainly a rural woman's experience, and a poor woman's experience. African cities can be very different

streetlife70s · 04/11/2017 08:21

She is neither poor nor rural. But the country is poorer than ours. Which means babies of mothers who are unable to breast feed are less likely to survive and as such, girls who are genetically predisposed to grow to have easy BF experiences are more likely to be produced.

Barbie222 · 04/11/2017 08:24

By the time I'd fed three children it seemed normal to me that on about day 4 you wouldn't get off the couch all day and would have a fussy crying baby for a few days, that lost some weight, but I nearly stopped bf number one for this reason because it didn't seem normal. My cousin and most of my nct group stopped at this time but I kept going because formula gave my baby a rash. If I'd stopped like them I probably wouldn't have bothered trying with 2 and 3, as they haven't bothered trying with their subsequent children either. So yes it's important to give an honest picture about what breastfeeding looks like at first and a few more positive stories like Welshgirls because we aren't hearing nearly enough of those.

streetlife70s · 04/11/2017 08:29

And we won’t either until we recognise our entire cultural set up directly impacts female physiology.

Mustang27 · 04/11/2017 08:30

I fed through mastitis at 9 weeks with a course of antibiotics it was sore but I healed quickly and my milk didn’t suffer. My mil got a mastitis infection at about 5 months and was told not to and her supply has completely gone within a week and she still feels sad about this 30yrs on.

ICJump · 04/11/2017 08:34

I hate the slogan Breast is best. It’s devicive and elitist.

What might be helpful is breastfeeding is normal or to borrow from katy bowman

Breastfeeding is breastfeeding
Expressed milk feeding is expressed milk feeding
Formula feeding is formula feeding

All methods of infant feeding have a unique set of impacts positive and negative. Those need to explored and explained at both a population and an indervidual level.

Woman need more support and I don’t mean posters and pump but rather we need more time and earlier expose to babies being fed to understand how it work

eeanne · 04/11/2017 08:38

streetlife70s why compare to Eritrea when the Netherlands, US, Canada etc are doing better on BF than the UK? Plenty of similarly developed countries with clean water and formula available on shop shelves still have better rates of BF.

Crumbs1 · 04/11/2017 08:41

There are very, very few women who physically can’t. There are plenty who choose not to and that is their right. The DoH has a responsibility to give an accurate message that breastfeeding is best and supports better outcomes for healthier children.

Bubblebubblepop · 04/11/2017 08:41

It's interesting that you've so strongly latched onto that street, when you've admitted that is something you think makes sense rather than is backed up by evidence.

Interestingly I find African cities the exact opposite- far more "UK in the 70s"- where in desperation to get away from ways that are often seen as poor, primitive and old fashioned, formula and c sections are seen as the preserve of the wealthy and educated

streetlife70s · 04/11/2017 08:49

I haven’t ‘latched on’ and if you read my first post you would see I quoted a recent study about Western women losing the ability to BF due to physiological changes. I have also studied Childhhod and Youth experiences over many years and the experience I shared was given by someone recently emigrated to the UK from near Amatra (think I have that right) 15 miles from the capital.

However, as with ALL these threads, they start out with a sharing of information and then the mood turns and people get snarky so thanks everyone else for really interesting posts and sharing of experiences. I’m out Smile

LaurieMarlow · 04/11/2017 09:03

Culturally we're not well set up for it. Paternal leave is very short. New mothers are expected to 'get on with it' soon after birth. We don't have knowledgable friends and family as a bf support network. There is still stigma about bf in public.

The NHS/NCT could do more to support and (particularly) manage expectations properly. It's not helpful to be told it's 'easy' and 'if you're doing it right it doesn't hurt'. Practically everyone finds it difficult and painful at the start. Then at about 10
weeks (in my case) it all became easy as pie and was a lovely experience. But no one told me that.

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