to think "Breastfeed if you can" would be a better message

[ringle]

... than "Breast is best".

I say this having start skimmed yet another thread where the OP was driven to post natal depression because of difficulties breast feeding.

PND is far more damaging to babies than formula.

*as a slogan I meant!

That's really interesting @streetlife70. I reckon a similar thing is happening with vaginal birth.

The thing about inability to breastfeed us that is clearly isn't the mothers who aren't trying hard enough, but there is also obviously a huge problem with the breastfeeding support/education etc infrastructure because we have one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world. I don't think that the problem is that British women have greater physical problems, but that those problems aren't actually treated.

My mum is French and moved back to France in her fifties after spending a long time in the UK. She and a British friend both developed arthritis in their knees at roughly the same time. My mum in France was given loads of treatments - years of physio, injections etc, and she is now fully mobile. Her friend in the UK was given a print out of exercises and told to lose some weight.

It's the same with breastfeeding. "The baby isn't getting enough milk" should trigger investigation and treatment, not just an instruction to try harder or else use formula.

How about "just feed your baby however the fuck you like and don't judge others"?

My children were exclusively formula fed. I didn't want to breastfeed, so I didn't.

My only regret with breastfeeding is ever being persuaded to try it when I had DD1. We lasted four days and it was hell on earth. That confirmed that my original instinct to formula feed was the right one.

Ok streetlife, I hear you and agree with you, but then consider other experiences too?

My SIL couldn't feed her 3 children because she didn't have enough milk
We had children at the same time (her 3rd, my 2nd) and found out she considered that she wasn't making enough milk because her newborns were waking regularly to feed, and sometimes feeding again after short periods. She took this to mean she didn't have enough milk to satisfy them. 3 times.

That is the kind of example people are talking about, those women who need to be told you ARE producing enough. Your baby IS satisfied. But sometimes, this is what breastfeeding looks like. The cluster feeding. The "putting in the next day's order" the comfort sucking.

And the women
Who fit into that category are surely more numerous than the women who physically can't BF- we know at least in countries where formula is prescription only very small % of women / babies are found to need formula for medical reasons. Isn that a decent indicator of the % of women who physically can't? And many of the posters on this thread will come into that %, because they're here, sharing their experiences.

Maybe they could actually provide proper support for wanting to breastfeed instead of just sticking annoying posters up everywhere promoting it.

The extent of my support when I was pregnant was the Midwife casually asking me if I was going to breastfeed. I said I’m going to try.

I was a baby in the 80’s and bottle fed, even my Mum was bottle fed so I had no family with any experience of it all to help. Their solution was just stick her on a bottle.

Even one session talking about it, explaining latch, how intense it can be, how to help with nipples etc would have done me the world of good.

Whilst I was breastfeeding in hospital it really hurt like unbearable pain. I had to stay overnight and I had just a basic room so no comfortable chair or pillow etc. Apparently it was a really unfortunate position as well the way I was holding her.

The extent of “support” after she was born was the visiting Midwife showing me two positions to hold her that was it.

I lasted 3 days.

I honestly believe even 1 one hour session before she was born would have helped me. It would have encouraged me to go ff and google latch, positions etc and I could have mentally prepared myself for it.

I totally agree. Breast is great if it works for you, formula is great if not. I reserve my judgement for people who don’t feed their children at all!

I really wonder
If there is something in what street is saying. But agree bubble that people are not prepared enough for the cluster feeding and feeding every hour and that being normal. It makes women feel they are not producing enough.
I stuck with it for 6 weeks and was still in agony. I was sobbing with every feed. My daughter was a hungry ans fed a lot. I had so much support from lactation services. They all said her latch was right. But then why was it agony?
I’m fascinated to know if women in countries that don’t have access to safe formula struggle like we do in this country. Or do they all find it easy and just get on with it? Or are they in agony too and just have no choice but to suffer and stick it out?

Surely, your baby, your body, your choice.

Perhaps we should shame those nosy parkers that insist it's their businesses.

Women can't win! Society "breast is best"
Also society "ewwww can't you cover up"

Lots of women don't try breastfeeding because of the stigma attached to feeding in public.

jessikita that's exactly my point! The support is out there. But having a baby and just expecting the feeding will be fine isn't very realistic. Women need to know more about what to expect.

YANBU. At all. And fuck off anyone who still wants to beat that goddam drum.

Show me a FF or BF kid at any age and say which they had? Or as an adult? Bet no one can.

Fuck’s sake.

" OfaFrenchmind2 "

I hear what you say. "Less aggressive" would perhaps be a good step though.

"Show me a FF or BF kid at any age and say which they had? Or as an adult? Bet no one can.

Fuck’s sake."

I never understand this. What does that even mean? Why would someone be looking at children trying to judge whether they were breastfed? It's a weird point.

It still surprises me how much breastfeeding is a huge issue in the West.

I had a traumatic EMCS under GA with prem twins. I almost had a breakdown over bfing, because every single day, after id dragged myself into NICU, sore, battered and exhausted from being up all night trying to express, the breast is best message would be parroted at me by every nurse and every doctor. Of course id have done anything to do what was best for my little babies. The doctors would ask how "mummy's milk" was doing and one day a nurse said "not very much". I went and cried in the toilet. Id have to put my pitiful little bottles in the fridge alongside other peoples who had 2 full bottles from each session. My milk never came in and after 3 weeks of expressing maybe 10ml in a whole night, a nurse casually mentioned my twins might not be ready to latch for another 3 weeks. I decided to put them on formula there and then. I firmly believe the most important thing is the mother's mental health.

I wish so much that someone would have just said look, its ok if you don't want to do this. You can put them on formula, you matter too. The pressure to breastfeed almost broke me.

I also object to the "medical evidence shows that the vast majority of women can breast feed" line.
Not because I know it isn't true, but because I know it is misused and misunderstood.

The point being Bubble that it has no impact one way or another.

So what is the point pushing any method of feeding.

As a PP suggested, ‘Feed your baby’ is the ONLY thing that matters.

This is controversial but I don't think twin parents should be encouraged to BF at all. In fact i think their midwife should sit down with them and explain the reality of BF and help them plan to mix feed if they are eager to try.

Well that's not true babymamaroo- you can't tell by looking at 2 children how often they get colds or coughs, stomach viruses, the quality of their gut bacteria- all arguably influenced by BF.

You can't tell any of that by just looking at people

@MrsTerryPratchett that is so my reasons for breastfeeding!!! Only it didnt suck as much chub as I’d have liked lol.

These threads always break my heart and we are really failing mothers if the way they chose to feed their baby is driving them to the extremes like @streetlife70s. I think we fail from start to finish with the care of mothers tbh but where do you even start it’s just all such a shit show.

Any mums to be reading this I loved breastfeeding it helped my mental health and me to bond with my baby. There are lots of positive bf stories as there is ff stories listen to them all and accept what works for you is best. You cannot be the mum you want to be if you spend it obsessing over everything and feeling like a failure every minute.

Bubble I didn’t mean to quite literally ‘look’ 😂

And funnily enough my children get coughs, colds etc as much as their FF counterparts!! Let alone eczema...

There’s so much misinformation out there though. Many women think they can’t breastfeed or their milk is no good because their baby won’t go 3-4 hrs between feeds and want to be latched in more often

Yes but your children aren't a population level example although of course I can't tell that from looking at them either

It's a really annoying nonsense soundbite that always comes up on these threads

Breast is best if it works for you, formula is best if it doesn't.

I was surprised at how little support there was for breastfeeding. After lots of questions when I was pregnant about how I planned to feed the baby, once the baby arrived there was nowhere near enough help.
My baby had a severe tongue tie and couldn't feed properly. The hospital told me it was up to a two month wait for an appointment to get it sorted.

Thankfully we had the money and I had a supportive enough partner to take us the 40 miles to get it done privately (I couldn't drive at that point due to a C section).
Tongue tie was snipped in less than 15 minutes, costing us almost £200, and we've been able to feed perfectly for almost a year, with no sign of stopping.
So yes, plenty of advice leading up but hardly any help when we needed it. I still think breast is best.