to think "Breastfeed if you can" would be a better message

[ringle]

... than "Breast is best".

I say this having start skimmed yet another thread where the OP was driven to post natal depression because of difficulties breast feeding.

PND is far more damaging to babies than formula.

There are very, very few women who physically can’t.

Wrong.

There are "very, very few" women who physically do not produce milk.

That is not the only reason for not being able to breastfeed. Not physically producing enough milk is one. Milk not coming in quick enough after a difficult birth is another. Baby not being able to latch properly another. Bleeding shredded nipples is another. These are not things that can generally be overcome by just trying harder.

The DoH has a responsibility to give an accurate message that breastfeeding is best and supports better outcomes for healthier children.

Except the evidence doesn't show this. Despite some people constantly saying it does, it doesn't.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I have found the NHS are being incredibly supportive of my choice to BF AND provided plenty of information. But surely the onus isn't just on the NHS?? Don't people do their own research on these things when pregnant?

ethel I had a similar experience with the NHS, but I don’t think agency on the part of new mums is a reasonable expectation:

Ahead of birth most people’s focus is birth/pain management etc.

There’s little awareness of breastfeeding being painful to begin with, or an expectation that this is normal.

Post-birth if you’re incredibly sleep-deprived and stressed it’s really difficult to make rational decisions or find the help you need.

That’s my experience, anyway. And I’m an extreme forward planner (8 week old DD has clothes for the next year and we moved house to near a good secondary ahead of her birth). The nhs bombarded me with breastfeeding propaganda and the only message was that breastfeeding was a matter of willpower.

Personally I think I’d have benefited from a much more in-depth talk about feeding during nhs antenatal classes, NCT classes and post-natally. After the birth a very young male midwife came to talk to me about feeding, and taught me fuck all. I’m all for employment equality, but what I needed (in hindsight) was someone older and experienced to talk about latch, positions, pain, engorgement etc. And despite living in a borough with daily BFing cafes I didn’t know they existed until my husband googled for support when he found me crying at 3am.

I've never heard an NHS representative call breasfeeding "easy." I've heard it deemed "natural," which many expectant mothers take to mean that it should come easy. Of course, anyone who has breastfed in those early stages will tell you it's not.

I didn't produce milk. But I was very ill.

Bollocks to that.

Breast IS best. It's a fact, and I'm sick to fucking death of people telling us we shouldn't state facts because it hurts their feelings.
I don't care who chooses to breastfeed or not. I do care that they want to rewrite facts to suit the choices they made.

Except the evidence doesn't show this. Despite some people constantly saying it does, it doesn't

Yes it does. And you are lying for your own reasons.

I'm not sure why there has to be a message.
People will feed their babies one way or another. Why put pressure on new mothers.

Breast IS best. It's a fact, and I'm sick to fucking death of people telling us we shouldn't state facts because it hurts their feelings.
I don't care who chooses to breastfeed or not. I do care that they want to rewrite facts to suit the choices they made.

This.

The DoH has a responsibility to give an accurate message that breastfeeding is best and supports better outcomes for healthier children.

Except the evidence doesn't show this. Despite some people constantly saying it does, it doesn't.

There’s a clear scientific consensus that breastfeeding is beneficial for mums and babies.

You can debate what the NHS should do with that information, but pretending it’s untrue is little different to climate change deniers who try to claim there’s a “debate” about human activity causing climate change, when in fact the overwhelming majority of researchers are in agreement that it does.

I'm not sure why there has to be a message.
People will feed their babies one way or another. Why put pressure on new mothers.

So does this apply to every bit of public health advice the NHS provides?

They shouldn’t say preschool children should be active for three hours a day because even though there’s clear evidence that’s good for their health it might put pressure on parents?

Or they shouldn’t say we should eat a diet rich in fruit and vegetables because that’s putting pressure on parents who don’t know how to cook or don’t have time to make healthy meals?

The evidence is not conclusive that breastfeeding causes X, Y or Z.

Correlation does not equal causation.

One example is the study which looked at sibling sets which were fed differently, and showed no discernable difference between BF and FF siblings.

Ahead of birth most people’s focus is birth/pain management etc.

Of course thus, but to not think to do ANY research at all on feeding/ looking after a baby before they arrive?
I've no experience with babies at all so I did my research as well as relying on the NHS for info. I actually made the decision to BF assuming I would struggle with it and it wouldn't be an instant thing. I assumed it would hurt and I assumed we would have to work hard at it. I also made a decision that if it didn't work out for us, I would switch to formula if it looked to be the best thing for us... and I still will if things don't work out. I'm not trying to sound sancatmonious here and I would never criticise other people's choices on how they feed their babies - I just don't think it's fair to solely blame the NHS for it. Granted I had a positive experience with them though.

With my 3rd baby i went to an NHS antenatal class. I was shocked at the breastfeeding session. It totally skimmed over the information that i thought was the most relevant.

The teacher just said 'your milk will come in on day 3..' and then proceeded to spend the rest of the time explaining latch. yes. Latch is obviously important. But i then noticed the first parents kept just echoing 'when my milk comes in...' They seemed to have no clue that to produce a supply they needed to create demand. I was surprised when i spoke that the midwife teaching assumed the 'demand' part was a given but it was clear that the others had no idea. There was a huge gap in the communication.

They all genuinely thought on day 3 your hormones kicked in and your boobs just filled with milk. When i explained the baby had to suck and work pretty hard for those 3 days to send the messages to your body to make the milk they all seemed shocked. The midwife's attitude was huffily, 'like er yeah Obviously ' and tried to skim over it again. That information would have really helped me not feel like i was failing and fortunately i got it from MN when i had my first.

In fact i found a lot of gaps in the information i was given throughout my pregnancies and an assumptions by the MWs that i knew more than i did. I kept being brushed off and made to feel as tho my queries and concerns were annoying and silly.

The evidence is not conclusive that breastfeeding causes X, Y or Z.

Correlation does not equal causation.

There is an absolute abundance of good quality research showing both short term and long term benefits of breastfeeding.

But, let’s say you’re right and there’s no benefit at all, why do you think so many healthcare organisations - from the WHO and UNICEF to the NHS, RCOG and RCM - all support the recommendation that infants are exclusively breastfed for the first six months of life. It seems odd that these organisations, all of which employ people who are well qualified to assess research findings, should all be wrong, doesn’t it? It seems odd that money would be spent on promoting breastfeeding if there’s really no conclusive evidence of benefit. How do you explain that?

Those organisations do change their advice every few years though.

I think the benefits of breastfeeding have been overstated and the studies have never eliminated other factors - maternal intelligence, class, wealth etc, even though they say they have.

They shouldn’t say preschool children should be active for three hours a day because even though there’s clear evidence that’s good for their health it might put pressure on parents?

Or they shouldn’t say we should eat a diet rich in fruit and vegetables because that’s putting pressure on parents who don’t know how to cook or don’t have time to make healthy meals?

This sort of demonstrates the point that was forming in my head. There is so much emphasis on tiny baby nutrition. Most people can get this right. Give baby formula or breast milk. Sorted. It's when they start eating actual food where people need most help.

I wonder how many people use powdered milk versus fresh for themselves given the choice.

I hate the whole premise of ‘breast is best’. I’m pregnant and right from the start have been asked by all and sundry ‘do you plan on breast feeding?’ because it’s obviously going to have such a massive impact on the way Brenda 3 doors up lives her life! My stock answer is ‘I’ll give it a go if it works for me great if not then I’m not going to work myself up about it because I honestly don’t see the point and I really don’t care what other people think’

A friend of mine, also pregnant, sits very much in the ‘I’ve got breasts so must breast feed camp and I think every other woman should too’ I can’t help but think what if it doesn’t work for her? What if her milk doesn’t come in or the baby doesn’t latch or if she just down right hates it?

I think lots of women put themselves in a very vulnerable position with that mind set. We’ve had many discussions about it and she openly judges anyone that chooses to ff regardless of personal choice, those that simply don’t want to bf are cheating their children and sees ff as something that should only be done if you have no milk supply! I think there are so many things more important, a mothers mental health for one.

Surely a baby fed with either formula or breast milk, or a combination is what’s important And As long as it’s not McDonald’s strawberry milkshake in a bottle who business is it but mom or dads anyway?!

@eeanne

What an utterly stupid comment.

@dollieollie

Very sensible. Do what works for you. It's nobody elses business.

I was amazed at how easy bf was. Everyone made out like it would be difficult and I was terrified before my first was born. Feeding my second now. Glad I wasn't scared off.

anon
I agree with you.
Until a midwife said do you want to try breastfeeding I had no experience or knowledge of it.
It was the easiest thing I've ever done.
And I'm rather glad I have as there is research that shows that women who breast fed have a much lower chance of getting reccurance of their breast cancer.

SonicBoomBoom you are simply wrong.
There is overwhelming gold standard evidence of the advantages of breast milk. Even in the Western World where there is ready access to fresh water.
It is, of course, a choice but should be an informed choice.
The physical reasons you give are not reasons that mean you can’t feed but that make it a bit harder. Few women haven’t had bleeding nipples at some point. Few have learned perfect latch first time.
As to the bit about milk not coming in quickly enough......do you think most women should breasts spurt gallons of milk during the third stage? Milk flow is established by feeding. It begins with colostrum. Everyone takes a few days for the milk to ‘come in’ - although in truth it’s more about relaxing sufficiently to let down. If milk flow is insufficient the answer is to feed more not give up or supplement.

I stand by the view that very few women can’t feed but that it is a choice.
The DoH has responsibilities to encourage public health and that includes promoting breastfeeding.

More support is needed for ff. loads for bf. I was lucky had hv to set up everything for me. She was supportive for both bf or ff. didnt care which one just gave advice on method chosen. Some of my dd friends werent as lucky and struggled to get ff advice.