to think "Breastfeed if you can" would be a better message

[ringle]

... than "Breast is best".

I say this having start skimmed yet another thread where the OP was driven to post natal depression because of difficulties breast feeding.

PND is far more damaging to babies than formula.

laurie I have met plenty of women with shredded nipples due to nipple confusion.

Purely anecdotally of course, but for me my first 2 mix fed babies were so much easier. Introduced a bottle at about 2-3 weeks and they happily took 2 bottles a day and let me rest and my one good side restock and heal. I also expressed then so i had a stock to put in bottles etc and they had dummies. My life was so much easier.

Then with my 3rd i was convinced not to introduce a bottle or dummy till 6-8 weeks and get a better supply, but by then she wouldn't take a bit of either. We have then spent a year desperately trying. But no. I am the only source of comfort (and food really as she barely eats solids). It's been so so hard and as i said upthread, if i knew what i knew now i would do things differently.

I think sometimes midwives and HV tell you not to introduce a bottle (even expressed milk) until 8 weeks because they know the longer you leave it, the more likely the baby will refuse. Then you'll have to breastfeed.

I know lots of people who breastfed but gave a bottle a day to of formula from very early on. That seems to work really well for everyone involved.

@AppleTrayBake - exactly my experience, including some doctors and HVs

I think sometimes midwives and HV tell you not to introduce a bottle (even expressed milk) until 8 weeks because they know the longer you leave it, the more likely the baby will refuse. Then you'll have to breastfeed.

No. You are wrong.
Introducing formula before 6 weeks can interfere with the establishment of breastfeeding.
Introducing an artificial teat early can also lead to nipple confusion and pain.

There is no conspiracy.

Introducing formula before 6 weeks can interfere with the establishment of breastfeeding.
Not what's preached in other countries

Introducing an artificial teat early can also lead to nipple confusion and pain.
Like I say, I've never come across a nipple confused baby in my life and shredded nipples are just a fact of the first 6 weeks of breastfeeding, regardless of whether other teats are used.

No sore nipples here but two babies that couldn't /wouldn't take a bottle. Ever. Tried at first on the day she was born.

shredded nipples are just a fact of the first 6 weeks of breastfeeding,

No they are not for all women.

They certainly were for me

laurie are you a breastfeeding expert?

Are you?

laurie you seem to be making claims - I wondered if you had any training or experience of breastfeeding support.

So are you.

I'm speaking from the experience of having bf my own child, seen many friends/family bf and knowing a bit about how bf is promoted in other cultures as my friends are quite international.

You sound like you don't like people challenging your opinions.

I trained for two years to qualify as a breastfeeding counsellor and have worked in breastfeeding support for 17 years, including training other counsellors.

I have seen many many cases of nipple confusion.

laurie- you may not have come across a case of nipple confusion, but you have presumably met only a small number of breast feeding women to base your views.

Not thousands.

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of a single one personally.

I have lots of respect for bf counsellors, but at the same time am conscious of specific agendas. And in the UK I feel there's too much pressure to breastfeed 'purely'.

I've seen mix feeding, additional teats, nipple shields work well for other mums so I wouldn't hestitate for a moment to use them myself if it took the pressure off. I'm definitely introducing a bottle (of expressed milk) long before 6 weeks with a second child as I don't want another refusenik.

I haven't seen thousands no. But I have seen friends from other cultures talk about the 'norm' there and what works for them.

Very interesting question raised above: why would the NHS push unprofitable breastfeeding without good reason?

I wonder whether part of the answer might be an attempt to counteract previous bad practice? My MIL was unnecessarily knocked out during childbirth and no one offered the option to bf. She regrets this.

Generally there is a bad history of medical births being used as much to control women as to ease pain I think? Which the NHS is rightly trying to move beyond?

This discussion started off about what message should be given, presumably by the NHS or other authorities, about infant feeding.

The only responsible way for organisations like the NHS to decide what to advise the public is for them to base that advice on the best scientific evidence available at the time.

Lots of people are sharing personal experiences about things like mixed feeding, nipple confusion and other issues. Those anecdotes might be interesting but they have limited value if we’re discussing what message organisations responsible for public health advice should give.

I wonder whether part of the answer might be an attempt to counteract previous bad practice?

Could I ask why you think the NHS would do this? And also if there are any other bits of public health advice the NHS provides that you think might be motivated by this?

Street life, gosh what a traumatic time you had,I agree it’s a difficult time and new mums are vulnerable and sensitive

"This" meaning counteract?

Yes, I meant is there anything else that the NHS offers advice about - say healthy eating, exercise, sexual health, screening tests, vaccinations, etc - that you think might be motivated by this idea of counteracting bad advice given in the past.

I don't know!

I suppose I just figured that normally things happen as a reaction to other things, not in isolation. That's what businesses are like anyway.

And it's good science to change as new evidence comes in?