Sarah Vine: ‘If this hysterical Westminster witch hunt is what a world run by women looks like, count me out’

[gluteustothemaximus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5037545/SARAH-VINE-hysterical-Westminster-witch-hunt.html#ixzz4xIfYLwOP

Sorry. I should know better than to get wound up by the daily mail, or Sarah Vine.

Lines like: What started as a WhatsApp group of parliamentary employees swapping notes on their bosses has turned into a mob of aggrieved ‘victims’ claiming a million sexual micro-aggressions against a number of unnamed individuals who, it seems, are not even allowed to know where they are supposed to have overstepped the mark.

Poor menz. Not knowing what constitutes sexual harassment.

Or perhaps that depends on your point of view. Because there is a strong cultural and generational element to this, too. Most of the accused are over 40; most of the accusers are in their 20s. In other words, it’s the revenge of the millennials, many of whom will have had their senses of humour surgically removed at university.

Riiight. So anyone who is harassed, doesn’t have a sense of humour if they don’t laugh it off?

Like that stupid ‘Metoo’ hashtag that started trending after the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke, these are not real expressions of emancipation: they are empty, attention-seeking gestures

I tweeted about my rape. I can assure you it wasn’t attention seeking.

AIBU to be sad that some women, like sarah, feel like this?

God, we have along way to go.

Sorry gluteustothemaximus I should have thought that through!
But according to MargaretTwat I'm some kind of Nazi so don't expect too much intelligence from me!

Some of this reaction reminds me of the similar reaction women scientists got when complaining about sexist shirts. Apparently such comments denigrate from serious issues.

No problem Polidori

It’s an emotive subject. One I desperately want talked about as my DD goes into the same world I went into.

Can I also just say, that sadly having experienced all forms of sexual harassment, from catcalling, to hand on thighs, to feeling my bum, to hands in knickers, to groping breasts, to lewd remarks, and all the way to more ‘serious’ SA and rape.

Every single one of those incidents I felt embarrassed, ashamed, dirty, humiliated, powerless.

I do equate each incident with those same feelings. I don’t feel any incident is worse than the other. They all make up the bigger picture. That women all over the world put up with this every single day.

It has to stop.

But women who moan about someone patting their knee are diminishing the experiences of those who are victims of serious sexual assault

The assumption being that those women are different women. AFAIK (and indeed IME) one doesn't inoculate you against the other.

I've suffered both. I think most women probably have. I can still get worked up about someone accidentally on purpose touching me one the knee/breast/bum much in the same way that female infanticide horrifies me but I'm still capable of sympathising with my daughter when she hurts herself rather than just pointing out that she's lucky to be here.

Ah cross posted

Yes, certain. Good point!

Lest we forget here is the Guardian's very own Marina Hyde sneering at Myleene Klass when she first mentioned about a person, who turned out to be Harvey Weinstein, propositioning her back in 2010

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2010/sep/30/myleene-klass-hollywood-indecent-proposals

Comment in the Guardian today

Do you know what? I have just reflected on that stupid fucking 'hand on the knee' comment and realised how fucking angry I am about it.

I am just so fucking sick of that attitude. Actually, that attitude is the one that has made me minimise every single fucking awful fucking sexual assault that has happened to me from the age of fucking six.

Because basically unless you're dressed as a nun on the way to fucking mass and a burly stranger grabs you from behind and rapes you in the proverbial dark alley it's never fucking enough is it? It's never fucking bad enough to be pissed off about.

As if there's some glamour in sexual assault that you're trying to claim for yourself.

It's a fucking cuntish thing to say. Stop it.

Yes as another who has experienced almost the full gamut of harassment/abuse (sans full rape and even there I'm not 100% sure)

I don't consider those complaining about hand on knee type assault/harassment as doing anything but helping prevent that predator from treating another woman even worse.

I wonder if those minimising understand that many violent sexual predators start small?

Ted Bundy was a peeping Tom.

I believe Edmund kemper was a 'bum tapper' initially

Go see what they progressed to!

Calling the columnist an idiot is hardly a point of view on groping! I am sn older feminist and am appalled tbat some of these women did not retaliate. I hate seeing women as victims and we need to act ad equals! If someone makes suggestive comments then bawl that man out there and then, not go crying to no 10 like Andrea Leadsom. The women working in Parliament are well educated competent people. The woman called sugar tits should have told the stupid minister that her partner would be pleased to publicise his comments. He is the famous Sky journalist Jon Craig! Where was this woman’s self respect? This is 2017 and i am tired of these women who have benefited from feminism but are too scared to answer back. Touching your knee or making creepy remarks are not serious sexual assault and women need to toughen up snd deal with such masculine stupidity. There are now HR depts and rules and laws to protect against such acts so dont just moan, deal with it. Reading this forum most of you are feisty and deal with all sorts of stuff that life deals. I could certainly deal with pathetic men who tried anything on me. It would not happen twice.

Quite.

And person A forcing person B to have sex with them doesn't give person C a free pass to stroke person D's knee.

It just doesn't, it's absurd. And I'll be really fucking angry for you when it happens.

Even if that's all that happens.

Do you know what? I have just reflected on that stupid fucking 'hand on the knee' comment and realised how fucking angry I am about it.

I am just so fucking sick of that attitude. Actually, that attitude is the one that has made me minimise every single fucking awful fucking sexual assault that has happened to me from the age of fucking six.

Absolutely. And it's often where it starts. A guy accidently-on-purpose touches a knee. The woman says/does nothing because "Well, I'm not sure...it's nothing to get annoyed about...not serious" So he gets away with it.
Next time, he might risk brushing a breast or bum. And gets away with it. And so on...
It's escalation. Sex attackers often start with relatively 'minor' offences like flashing, don't they?
And so it is with harassment.

Oh god. Now it looks like I agree with lapun. Nothing could be further from the truth.

x post Graphista

lapun Seriously? RTFT

It’s gone too far, what Fallon did/said was in no way of the level Weinstein reached. There’s a massive difference. Is it beyond someone to just tell the other person to fuck off. I love a bit of banter and sexual in eye do with my male friends most I have spoken to say they are at the point where they wouldn’t consider putting an arm round an upset co worker or talking about anything but work.

Lapun - your post is the very antithesis of feminism

"We need to act as equals" kinda hard when you're a 16 yr old shy kid or a 30 something single mum who NEEDS that job to live.

"Well educated competent women" meaning they know EXACTLY how they will be treated/portrayed when they DO complain.

I am feisty - but I still know how the real world works, complain about the boss/boss's son/favourite - get labelled a troublemaker and potentially lose job.

In addition if you have a job in the public eye every ons, drunken snog will be laid bare to 'prove she wanted it really'

Lapun, seriously, it’s these attitudes that stop women from getting anywhere.

I has nothing to do with women. The men should not be doing anything in the first place to force a woman to ‘stand up for herself’.

lapun34 Yes there are rules and laws and HR departments - how would you like women to seek recourse to those rules without doing something which you might characterise as "running crying" to someone?
PS - if you're a feminist I'm a time lord.

It's a funny coincidence that the same people who say 'trivialises REAL abuse' go on to minimise and trivialise.

It's a funny coincidence that the same people who say 'trivialises REAL abuse' go on to minimise and trivialise

Yes, exactly this.

And yet those of us who have experienced the more ‘serious’ abuse, don’t minimise the knee touching.

I am honestly really uncomfortable with the whole 'it's just banter' argument.

I keep hearing it from friends and colleagues in rl, how a bit of harmless joking and flirting is now harassment and how terrible it is.

I can only assume none of them have ever felt assaulted, intimidated, afraid to make a scene like I have and many other women like me.

I'm not a left winger. I voted for Brexit. But I think calling stuff just banter and it's all fine is really demeaning to people who have been victims.

I do know men who have suffered unwanted attention in the workplace too, been groped and touched by women when they didn't want to be. In some ways that's worse. When I was younger and men touched me I would hit back ( not that it made a difference) but we tell boys they can't hit girls.

Back to the point...Should you put an arm round someone in the workplace? Honestly I don't think so. That person may be deeply uncomfortable with such interaction. I know I would have been, indeed still am. There are literally about 5 people I could accept a hug from.

I flirt all the time and I am the queen of banter. I am also very good at comforting people when needed - I hugged someone in a meeting yesterday. They won't be saying I sexually harassed them because - and this is crucial - I didn't.

It's bollocks to say we will lose ANYTHING by calling time on sexual harassment and sexual assault. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron.

I'm kind of hoping Boris gets implicated in all of this, and we finally get rid of him.

This sort of comment backs up those 'witch hunt' excuses.

FFS, VelvetSpoon. You're seriously claiming that we have it worse because we can't thump women? Oh poor us!

I don’t think it does.

They are saying they don’t like Boris. If he has sexually harassed someone, then it would be an excellent reason to get rid.

A witch hunt would be finding someone innocent, guilty.