Sarah Vine: ‘If this hysterical Westminster witch hunt is what a world run by women looks like, count me out’

[gluteustothemaximus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5037545/SARAH-VINE-hysterical-Westminster-witch-hunt.html#ixzz4xIfYLwOP

Sorry. I should know better than to get wound up by the daily mail, or Sarah Vine.

Lines like: What started as a WhatsApp group of parliamentary employees swapping notes on their bosses has turned into a mob of aggrieved ‘victims’ claiming a million sexual micro-aggressions against a number of unnamed individuals who, it seems, are not even allowed to know where they are supposed to have overstepped the mark.

Poor menz. Not knowing what constitutes sexual harassment.

Or perhaps that depends on your point of view. Because there is a strong cultural and generational element to this, too. Most of the accused are over 40; most of the accusers are in their 20s. In other words, it’s the revenge of the millennials, many of whom will have had their senses of humour surgically removed at university.

Riiight. So anyone who is harassed, doesn’t have a sense of humour if they don’t laugh it off?

Like that stupid ‘Metoo’ hashtag that started trending after the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke, these are not real expressions of emancipation: they are empty, attention-seeking gestures

I tweeted about my rape. I can assure you it wasn’t attention seeking.

AIBU to be sad that some women, like sarah, feel like this?

God, we have along way to go.

Have had just this conversation with a female colleague at work. Lovely woman, but the victim blaming that came out of her mouth.... Depressing.

I don't think it is a hysterical witch hunt at all. There is a difference between unwanted behaviour which has no place in the workplace and serious sexual assault, but that does not make either right.

Michael Gove has offended many people over the years, but of the 30 or so Tory MPs on the list I have seen of allegations of inappropriate behaviour or worse, he is not one.

She did this last week as well didn't she? 'A drunken pass over dinner isn't sexual assault'. It's like debating for the terminally stupid.

I just look at her and I'm glad I don't get paid to be a class traitor tbh.

And also glad I'm not married to Gove - who Charlie Brooker memorably described as looking like a startled veal calf...

Got to be more to the Michael Fallon case than touching a knee. No one should be dismissed for touching a knee. Apparently the woman he did it to told him she'd "knock his block off" if he did it again. Bet she won't be dismissed for intimidating behaviour.

This is becoming feminism going insane. How the hell are men supposed to know whether a knee touch or friendly pat on the shoulder might be a cause of them being dismissed in 15 years time? How will any man want to make a pass at a woman he genuinely finds attractive and wants to ask out for dinner. Will he be arrested in 5 years time for making a pass?

It demeans the cause of women who really have been assaulted and/or raped. And for all of the above, swap the gender pronouns and it still makes sense.

I was assaulted by a man who sat next to me on a bus when I was 18. He put his hand between my legs and 'helped himself'. I was too shy/shocked to say anything at the time and I have never told anyone. I felt dirty and horrible but I gave myself a good talking to and promised myself I'd speak up if anyone ever did that to me again. It remains with me as a lesson learned but it didn't ruin my life and I never wanted to track him down and have him sacked. Maybe I should now? Where will it all end?

Where will it all end?

When men stop doing this shit.

Vine absolutely has form for serving up smug, hateful misogyny for the Mail.
She also defended their ‘Never mind Brexit, who won Legs-it?’ shit about the PM and Ruth Sturgeons’ legs.

There's no way that Fallon has lost his job over touching a knee. No way. Especially when you consider the stand of the woman involved. We're not in a world where someone loses their job for touching a single knee (regardless if they should) when the woman isn't actively campaigning for that to happen.

Either there is very much more to come out about him, or it was used by the PM to get rid of him and bring in her baffling choice of Grant Williamson.

In other words, it’s the revenge of the millennials, many of whom will have had their senses of humour surgically removed at university.

If it's the revenge of the millenials then it's the revenge of the female millenials who, thankfully, have the support and strength to be far, far less accepting of the bullshit that women have felt they had to accept in years gone by.

So if it is 'the revenge of the millenials' then fucking good on them imo.

I was assaulted by a man who sat next to me on a bus when I was 18. He put his hand between my legs and 'helped himself'. I was too shy/shocked to say anything at the time and I have never told anyone. I felt dirty and horrible but I gave myself a good talking to and promised myself I'd speak up if anyone ever did that to me again. It remains with me as a lesson learned but it didn't ruin my life and I never wanted to track him down and have him sacked. Maybe I should now? Where will it all end?

It will end when men like that realise they don't have the right to do that to any woman they choose.

If you did track him down and cost him his job then you'd be entirely withing your rights to do so. That's something he should live everyday fearing will come back and haunt him and the fact it isn't is because men (and sadly lots of women) don't see the big deal in a man just helping himself regardless of consent.

I don't understand this 'trivialising REAL abuse' line that's being trotted out just now. Surely it makes sense to make the goalposts of 'inappropriate behaviour' as wide as possible so women can say 'I am not happy about this' and be believed?

I've already posted this on a thread here today, but while I'm appalled at the scale of sexual harassment and am sorry for the women that had to go through it, it does feel like something is changing, that people are finally taking notice of what women have to go through all the time. If men are having to think twice about touching a women on the leg or sending a dirty email, I honestly can't see how that's a bad thing.

*a woman. My stupid phone does that all the time.

Mrspuddleduck - there's a huge difference between a hand on the knee and one in a more private place, I think we're all aware of that, I suppose the similarity is that in both cases it's a good idea to check before you go there.

And yes , someome who goes around sexually attacking women on the bus, does sound like a danger who shouldn't be around women in the workplace- but I understand your reasoning for not reporting at the time.

Men who don't assault women have nothing to worry about.

It's really that simple.

When she said this:

" Knowing MPs as I do, many of them are so socially inept, they make asking for a cup of coffee sound deeply suspicious. But just because someone is a bit odd, does that make them a pervert? No."

It made me laugh, and I thought: the Michael Gove experience speaking here

If it's the revenge of the millenials then it's the revenge of the female millenials who, thankfully, have the support and strength to be far, far less accepting of the bullshit that women have felt they had to accept in years gone by.

Abso-fucking-lutely!

It's very easy not to touch someone of the opposite sex. I don't touch men all the time. It really is very simples.

I love the way people ask where will it end as if men aren't allowed to cough without being reported.

Let us not forget that the most powerful job in the world is currently held by a man who by his own admission sexually assaulted multiple women using his position of power to intimidate them.

It is really simple. Men shouldnt do something to a female colleague which they wouldn't do to a male one.

It feels like this is never ending because we have had such a long journey to get this far and there is still a hell of a long way to go. Just because the bar has been set so low doesn't mean we are being unreasonable in demanding that it be raised.

Sounds and Vine are both utter gobshites.
That is all.

Sounds = soubry
Still a gobshitethough

Woody Allen said after Harvey Wankstain revelations:
He said it was important to avoid "a witch hunt atmosphere" where "every guy in an office who winks at a woman is suddenly having to call a lawyer to defend himself".

I have never known any woman to be upset and cry 'sexual harassment' at a wink.

I do however known many many women, who have been abused/raped/sexually assaulted at the hands of men, and continue to keep their secrets. Me included.

Because the point of the #metoo hashtag was that we hadn't reported it. But it had happened.

And there were no stories about winking.

I think lots of men probably are very worried. Probably they are worried about things they did many years ago which they justified to themselves at the time.

Interestingly my dh - who is a man - isn't at all worried about any of this. How has he achieved this serene peace of mind? Well it turns out he just had to AVOID SEXUALLY HARASSING OR ASSAULTING WOMEN.

It seems this strategy has paid off for him. I might get him to write a book or something to explain it to other people so they can do it too. A lecture series maybe?.

Yeah, Woody Allen is a great moral arbiter.

Vine is a disgusting little toady and apologist for sexual violence.

I know I said this on another thread, but I'll repeat it here: I think the way the allegations have surfaced is interesting. The Whats App list was leaked to the Guido Fawkes site (right wing libertarian - in other words, as far from feminist or "PC gorn mad" as you can imagine), who published a list of the alleged misdeeds without names. The Fawkes list mixes genuine instances of sexual abuse and abuse of power with consensual relationships (one instance described as an MP "impregnating" a researcher was in fact a couple who've lived together for years having a planned for and much wanted child together).

So, as usual, ask "who benefits?" from framing the issue this way? And the answer is quite simple - by framing it this way, it enables gutter journalists like Vine to dismiss the genuine cases and piss all over the #MeToo movement, which started as a response to widespread sexual assault.

It also allows the genuine sexual abusers to hide behind a smokescreen of "well look, half the allegations on that list were a complete load of nonsense."

I think it's all a bit too damn convenient.

As a male in his early 40s I find all this 'men don't know where they are anymore' and going on about 'political correctness gone mad' bollocks that one sees on social media to be bemusing. It's really not difficult, if you treat women with respect and dignity (essentially the way one wants to be treated oneself) then there is nothing to worry about.

Yes pricklyball misdirection is definitely in play

Its like when the Jimmy Saville revelations came out and there were complaints from women DJs about being touched inappropriately by other co-presenters and the Beeb went on about changing the culture and wringing their ahnds, conveniently distracting from the rather obvious fact that JS had friends in lots of high places to allow him to get away with what he did - and we probably don't know the half of it.

You hear Ruth Davidson and she seems genuinely passionate about making parliament a safe place for all to work at, but the rest of it just sounds like cynical manoeuvres to move past it asap.