Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Manafort Destiny? Trump continued

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 30/10/2017 13:07

Where will the charges against Manafort lead? Whose shredders are overheating today? And most importantly, when will the Tweetstorm-from-the-loo start?

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3061258-FMOTUS-F-ing-Moron-of-the-United-States-Trump-thread-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
58
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/11/2017 16:08

Someone who understands it's a war (he's literally got a book out called "Alternative War!") looks at Nigel Farage.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT NIGEL...

www.byline.com/column/67/article/1929

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/11/2017 16:18

Renato Mariotti‏
@renato_mariotti

THREAD: Why today’s news indicates that Trump Jr. could have significant criminal liability in connection with the Trump Tower meeting.

1/ Today @bpolitics reported about its two and a half hour interview of the Russian lawyer who met with Trump Jr.
2/ She indicated two separate but very important things about her conversation with Trump Jr.:

A Russian lawyer who met with President Donald Trump’s oldest son last year says he indicated that a law targeting Russia could be re-examined if his father won the election and asked her for written evidence that illegal proceeds went to Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

3/ On one hand, she discussed with Trump Jr. the repeal of the Magnitsky Act, which punishes certain Russian officials for a murder.

Veselnitskaya said she went to the New York meeting to show Trump campaign officials that major Democratic donors had evaded U.S. taxes and to lobby against the so-called Magnitsky law that punishes Russian officials for the murder of a Russian tax accountant who accused the Kremlin of corruption.

4/ As a result of that act, Russia banned adoptions of Russian children by U.S. citizens. We’ve heard “adoptions” discussed by Trump Jr.
5/ It does not appear that Trump Jr. or Kushner dispute that the Magnitsky Act was discussed at the meeting.
6/ The biggest news in the Bloomberg piece is what she said Trump Jr. would do about the Magnitsky Act. She recounted his words:

“Looking ahead, if we come to power, we can return to this issue and think what to do about it,’’ Trump Jr. said of the 2012 law, she recalled. “I understand our side may have messed up, but it’ll take a long time to get to the bottom of it,” he added, according to her.

7/ So Trump Jr. suggested that his father’s administration, if he was elected, would re-examine whether to keep the Magnitsky Act.
8/ That isn’t all Trump Jr. talked about. He also asked the Russian lawyer for dirt on Hillary Clinton in the same meeting:

Veselnitskaya also said Trump Jr. requested financial documents showing that money that allegedly evaded U.S. taxes had gone to Clinton’s campaign. She didn’t have any and described the 20-minute meeting as a failure.

9/ Trump Jr. doesn’t dispute this part either, which is why I’ve said many times that his public statements on this subject were a bad idea.
10/ It is a federal crime to exchange an “official act” for something of value. It’s called “theft of honest services.”
11/ To put it more simply, offering to exchange an official act for something of value is like soliciting a bribe.
12/ There can be no serious question that supporting repeal of the Magnitsky Act would be an official act for purposes of this statute.
13/ The big question is whether there was a connection between the offer to consider repealing the Act and the request for dirt on Clinton.
14/ This question is very commonplace in run of the mill corruption cases. Let’s take the example of a corrupt city council member.
15/ The city council member will rarely directly say that he won’t consider a voting change unless $5,000 is paid.
16/ What usually happens is the zoning change is discussed and then the city council member brings up a $5,000 donation.
17/ The connection is implicit and both sides understand what is going on, even if it’s unsaid. So how do prosecutors overcome that hurdle?
18/ Typically the conversation is recorded, and the other person in the conversation testifies as to her understanding of what was meant.
19/ In this case, there is no recording, as far as we know. But many people were present for the conversation.
20/ The question is what the Russian lawyer understood Trump Jr. to mean during the conversation. Did she think he wanted dirt in exchange?
21/ She has potential liability and would need immunity, and has credibility issues because she appears to have been a Russian operative.
22/ So Mueller has significant challenges to overcome in proving this. There is another potential challenge that I’ll raise here.
23/ Trump Jr. could argue that his offer wasn’t an “official act” because his dad wasn’t President yet and he didn’t promise to repeal.
24/ I have not researched these issues. Neither would help him in front of a jury, but the question is whether a judge would toss the case.
25/ My preliminary take is both of those issues could be overcome by Mueller but that’s fact-specific and I haven’t researched that point.
26/ Another question I’ll look at more is whether a New York criminal statute was violated. Trump can’t pardon state offenses.
27/ My initial glance at New York law suggests that, unsurprisingly, this is also a felony under state law (PEN 200.50):
28/ I’ll look into these issues more later today before my appearance on @NicolleDWallace at 4 pm ET / 3pm CT. /end

mrsreynolds · 06/11/2017 16:33

I will - with your permission - use that WW2 analogy with ds1
I completely agree
I just wish I shared your optimism Sad

PerkingFaintly · 06/11/2017 17:14

Some days are more optimistic than others...Sad

I've been listening to grim WW2 stories, of each Allied unit making the best of what it could do. Eg an artillery unit chose a stand beyond a river - but in vain because another unit decided it could best defend its part of the line by damming the same river...

It got an awful lot worse before it got better. Dunkirk must have felt like the end.

But it wasn't.

If we DON'T believe we can overcome, we really will lose. So... courage!

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 06/11/2017 17:19

And yes of course, share as you wish.

Cake nice thing to share, too^
OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/11/2017 17:25

U.K. regulator says Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson breached impartiality rules

amp.cnn.com/money/2017/11/06/media/ofcom-fox-news-sean-hannity-tucker-carlson-impartiality/index.html

AcrossthePond55 · 06/11/2017 17:52

I'm beginning to wonder if part of the reason that so many wealthy elected Dems are remaining a bit silent (i.e. 'tut tut' vs 'off with their heads!!') on all of Scrotus et al's financial shenanigans and not pushing for impeachment is because some of them know that if the shit really hits the fan (i.e. Paradise Papers, Russian contacts) that they are going to 'go down' too.

I hate to think that there are 'dirty hands' in my political party, but politics is a dirty business and no one has said that all Democratic elected officials are the Calpurnias of the political world. And unfortunately if some Dem are 'dirty' and their heads have to roll to get Scrotus out of office, then so be it.

Fekko · 06/11/2017 18:36

You can't fire someone for using their right to express themselves (I hope to God).

cozietoesie · 06/11/2017 19:04

Interesting, Pain. From that piece:

.... Nonetheless, the censures come as parent company 21st Century Fox is being investigated by another U.K. media regulator, the Competitions and Markets Authority, as it tries to complete a $15 billion takeover of the part of U.K. telecommunications and broadcasting company Sky plc it doesn't already own. The CMA is in the middle of a six month investigation into how the takeover will affect the media market in the U.K. and whether the company would maintain broadcasting standards....

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/11/2017 19:15

Who owns who?

21st Century Fox has been holding talks to sell most of the company to Disney: Sources
www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/11/06/21st-century-fox-has-been-holding-talks-to-sell-most-of-company-to-disney-sources.html

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/11/2017 19:18

Fox News host: At least the Texas shooting victims got killed in church
thinkprogress.org/fox-news-host-texas-shooting-church-4d90a9861981/amp/

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/11/2017 19:20

I’ve signed petitions/donated money to a campaign that’s trying to stop it going ahead cozie. This was the latest email update from Tuesday:

I told a group of government officials they should block Rupert Murdoch's Sky takeover last Friday. [1] Overall, I think it went well.

The meeting was with the watchdog who are currently investigating the Murdoch deal and have the power to block it. It was held at their London HQ, in a giant conference room with government officials, their lawyers and economists.

I was joined by representatives of some other organisations with concerns about Murdoch. I got a few minutes to speak, then answered some questions. I tried to get across one simple message: the public are against Murdoch's takeover of Sky.

I shared the results from our massive survey setting the reasons why we think a Murdoch takeover would be bad for the media and bad for democracy. I used the research which 38 Degrees members had paid for, to back up our arguments.

The government officials didn't give much away. But I could see them taking notes as I laid out the overwhelming evidence that the public don't trust Murdoch.

It meant a lot to know I was there to represent the voices of thousands of 38 Degrees members. Here are just a small selection of the quotes I was able to hand in to the inquiry. You can read the entire report I delivered to them here.

“Murdoch is already too powerful, and this would exempt him from any kind of democratic accountability. He already interferes too much in our politics.”

Alan Matthews, 38 Degrees member from Dorset

“It isn’t just television but newspapers. We already saw what happened with News of the World in defiance of UK laws. The ethics of these companies controlled by Murdoch are questionable.”

Andrea Titterington, 38 Degrees member from Lancashire

The room was full of lawyers, economists and media experts. There were lots of complicated and technical arguments. I hope I did a decent job of explaining that alongside the technical arguments, there are important principles at stake and that the public expect the government watchdog to stand up to Murdoch.

Since the Murdoch's takeover bid was announced last December, thousands of us have been doing all we can together to stop it:
We helped make this watchdog's investigation happen in the first place. 122,372 of us signed an open letter asking the Secretary of State for Culture, Karen Bradley, to make sure there was a deeper inquiry into the deal. Then we fundraised for the letter to run in Karen Bradley's local papers. [2]
We proved the public are against the takeover. Together, 38 Degrees members raised the money to pay for professional opinion polling from YouGov - not once, but three times - which showed a clear majority don't trust Murdoch.
We gathered expert evidence. We raised money to pay expert media researchers to show Rupert Murdoch already has too much influence on our politicians. Then we got the research in the papers. [3]

In a few months, the government watchdog will report back with their proposals. We'll all be ready to speak up again then. But in the meantime, I hope you feel proud to be part of the huge effort to block Murdoch's takeover. I definitely do!

Thanks for being involved,

David Babbs
Executive Director

NOTES:
[1] The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) is currently conducting an investigation into Murdoch's Sky takeover bid on two grounds: media plurality and commitment to broadcasting standards. You can read more about their investigation here:
UK Government: 21st Century Fox / Sky merger inquiry:
www.gov.uk/cma-cases/twenty-first-century-fox-sky-merger-european-intervention-notice
The Guardian: Sky takeover bid inquiry to assess potential influence on Sky News:
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/10/sky-takeover-bid-cma-investigation-scope-murdochs
[2] 38 Degrees: Karen Bradley: Stop Murdoch's Sky takeover:
speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campaigns/2365

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/11/2017 19:25

Two realities

We Asked 1,000 People What Happened Last Monday. Here’s What They Said.

Americans are divided on where they turn for news, how closely they follow current events and whether they trust the media. It shows

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59ff62b4e4b0c965300035eb

cozietoesie · 06/11/2017 19:35

Well done.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/11/2017 19:43

I’m not sure I can accept any plaudits when all I did was click a few buttons Blush

Disney’s been in the news about how it deals with the news, interestingly enough.

Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
Disney's boycott of the LA Times is unprofessional and unjournalistic. It's petty, vindictive, and it makes the company look small.

deadline.com/2017/11/disney-los-angeles-times-battle-anaheim-coverage-boycott-1202201260/amp/

Daniel Miller
Daniel Miller
@DanielNMiller
New: WaPo critic @AlyssaRosenberg won’t review Disney films in advance while the company’s LAT ban remains in place: www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2017/11/06/why-i-wont-be-reviewing-the-last-jedi-or-any-other-disney-movie-in-advance/?utm_term=.06ded57e63ed

lionheart · 06/11/2017 20:05

I cannot abide Murdoch and his clan.

www.latimes.com/opinion/la-oe-election-anniversary-updates-waters-1509749373-htmlstory.html

cozietoesie · 06/11/2017 20:48

They can’t square the shooting with unrestricted gun ownership, that’s why they’re saying stupid things.

badbadhusky · 06/11/2017 20:50

I don’t get Trump blaming the shooter’s poor mental health, because the Brit in me says “uh huh, so why aren’t you screening unstable folks out from gun owning?” A close relative used to have a shotgun licence here in the UK and the checks were pretty rigorous.

lionheart · 06/11/2017 21:07

thehill.com/homenews/media/358941-british-regulator-fox-news-broke-uk-bias-rules

Does the US have an equivalent regulator?

badbadhusky · 06/11/2017 21:31

That Mother Jones article was a sobering read.

Each year more than 11,000 people are murdered with a firearm, and more than 20,000 others commit suicide using one. Hundreds of children die annually in gun homicides, and each week seems to bring news of another toddler accidentally shooting himself or a sibling with an unsecured gun. And perhaps most disturbingly, even as violent crime overall has declined steadily in recent years, rates of gun injury and death are climbing (up 11 and 4 percent since 2011) and mass shootings have been on the rise.

If you look at the bar chart, there are another 59K gun assault injuries each year. Shock Small wonder there was talk of a public health emergency. That’s appalling.

Swipe left for the next trending thread