WHBU ? (Wheelchair vs. Buggy)

[DisabilityIsALifestyleChoice]

(NC'd but old hand here)

DH tends to chat in various discussion groups, and yesterday, in a discussion about roads told someone to fuck off.

Here's the conversation which started around using buses and how everyone should do it to relieve road congestion,

DH:
And wheelchair users can wait all day, and still not get a bus if there are people refusing to move their baby buggies.

POSTER:
What are parents to do if they have a child in a buggy, some shopping
underneath, so it cannot be folded and cannot relinquish their position and get a later bus, because they have to be at school for a particular time to pick up their 5 year-old child?

DH:
That's choice, compared to the necessity to use a wheelchair.

POSTER:
It's not choice if you have to do the shopping so as to have an evening meal, have a young child that you have to bring with you and need to pick up the other child from school. The wheelchair user may well have much more choice, as many can walk short distances and chairs
can fold. In some cases, their journey may be purely frivolous, unlike the example parent.

It was at this point DH suggested the poster "Go f* themselves".

I should add that obviously DH is sensitive to wheelchair users (which is what I am) and tries to be polite where he can (as befits his age, and maturity). But he's fretting now whether he was too abrupt .

I wonder what the vipers of AIBU think ? (For the record, I am 100% on his side, here ...)

I agree that wheelchair users have priority. Also agree with others that your DH didn't need to tell anyone to fuck off.
I do think, though, that this argument where disadvantaged groups are pitted against each other to see who wins the prize of a space on public transport is a bit of a red herring. We should all be annoyed that public transport is not set up to cater for the needs of all passengers and is neither plentiful or adequately equipped to do the job.

Pregnancy isn't a disability.

And thanks isn't the same as an apology.

On some buses that I travel on there are fold down seats in both sides st the front. One side labelled ' reserved for a wheelchair user' the other side labelled 'buggy priority, please vacate if needed' ( or words to that effect).

I think rather than bashing each other people should lobby the bus companies to ensure that new busses can accommodate both buggies and wheelchairs at the same time.

We are all paying for our bus journeys. It shouldn't be too much to expect to fit on comfortably!

Although buggies/prams can be folded down, there normally isn't:

• the space to store the buggy/pram without holding onto it
• the space to put the shopping (as luggage space that used to exist has been removed over the last 10 years)
• a seat free to sit down and hold the child

In the situation as described in the OP, the buggy/pram owner could always ask the wheelchair user if they mind waiting for the next bus, but be prepared to have to get off the bus if said user refuses and is unable to wait for the next one.

TammyswansonTwo
Put one in a back pack style carrier and one in a lightweight foldable buggy.
They can sit next to you or on a knee whilst on the bus.

Problem solved.

Surely you say sorry for being on the wheelchair space in the first place?

As for the poster with twins, there are always passengers willing to hold a baby for a few mins while you fold a buggy. Then you sit one next to you one on your lap if they're too big to sit one on each knee.

As for shopping...if I still had buggy aged children and didn't have access to a car I'd do my main food shop online, so only ever have a couple of bags if I was out with the buggy. Easier all round!

Wheelchair takes priority.

Acknowledging someone has got off the bus for you is the right thing to do.

They aren't getting off for the wheelchair user though. They are choosing to leave the bus because they would rather leave the bus than fold the pram.
The space is there for the wheelchair, if you are lucky and it's free then great but the expectation that it will be available is the attitude that needs changing.

I have and will always fold my buggy if a wheelchair user needs to get on the bus, however here in the countryside the next bus could be more than an hour away or in some villages next day/week! So getting off isn't an option, it's 10 miles back from town and the roads don't have footpaths. My bus company also don't do follow on tickets and an return to town is over £5, I have that money but many don't. I am happy to fold but it will take me a while as I have to find space for everything and get someone to hold the toddler, the wheelchair user that says she thinks I am rude because I am not out the space by the time she gets there is imo being a bit mean, if I'm doing my best to get the pram folded down and the toddler corralled then please be nice.. I remember before there were wheelchair spaces (which disability groups did campaign for) the buses had a luggage rack in that space, so although you had to fold there was somewhere to put the bags and pram, that space has disappeared to make the wheelchair space. It's a shame bus companies can't cater to both. Also many have hidden disabilities, I have a spinal deformity and can't carry my toddler now she is big in a carrier so I need the buggy. I am trying my best to be green and to be kind to my fellow humans.

Able-bodied parent should fold the buggy, or get off and wait for the next bus.

Some disabled parents (including those with invisible disabilities) will be unable to hold a folded buggy and a baby safely, and all the stuff, so will not be able to fold the buggy and vacate the space. Since one form of disability doesn't trump another, whether this person or someone else in a wheelchair uses the space should be determined by first-come, first-served. This isn't likely to be a large group, though.

Obviously disability laws override all else when it comes traveling on buses BUT I think it’s really unfair that parents with babies are always the ones to lose out.

This is not the fault of the wheelchair user obviously, the bus companies are not providing adequate access for parents either.

It’s not easy to juggle babies, bags as well as other children while on a bus and folding a buggy isn’t always an option so means that fee paying passenger loses out on her ticket and has to still travel (more expense) to get to where she was going.

Bus companies should not ever put people in the position where they have to get off a bus for anyone else due to their own lack of design. Babies on buses aren’t going away, neither are wheelchairs so I sincerely hope they will come up with a solution so ALL service users are treated fairly and equally.

Freudian the space seems to be labelled differently by practically every bus company, so what is true for your buses may not be true for other people's buses.

Is he usually so rude and aggressive?

I don't know what the different companies are called, Freudian, but I have noticed different notices.

(I laughed a bit at "Transport For All", which you seem to be interpreting as "Except For Disabled Parents, Who Can Swing In The Wind".)

I waited 20 minutes for a bus a few years ago and it was in the middle of summer - so really hot.

I had a buggy full of shopping, with a newborn in it. And I had my nearly 2 year old in a carrier on my back.

Both of them were asleep and I was first in line for the bus.

As the bus pulled up, somebody sped up pushing a wheelchair because they were obviously running late.

The bus driver refused to let me on unless I put my buggy down. He said he couldn’t have one wheelchair and one buggy on at the same time.
Even though I was there first - and clearly couldn’t put my buggy down.
AND on the way into town earlier that day, I had my buggy on one side and there were TWO sitting in the disabled section. But he said he didn’t believe me when I told him.

All of the elderly ladies who had been waiting stood up for me. I couldn’t handle the embarrassment and stress that this bus driver caused me, burst into tears and walked off. I heard the ladies telling the driver off.

I had to wait an hour for the next bus - and I complained. They gave me 2 day passes to use whenever I wanted - so we took them to the zoo a few years later because they had no expiry date!

But.. what would I do now?
I have a 4 and 5 year old who are both at school and we get the bus daily as they’re too tired to walk all that way.
I’m not allowed to drive because I have epilepsy - so I have a disabled bus pass.
I’m pregnant now so will have to go through this buggy issue again next year.
But the buggy I’ve got won’t go down as the seat units attach to the frame, so it would take me ages to put it down and I’d take up more room because of the seperate bits!

So what would he say about me - someone who has a hidden disability so have a free bus pass, children to pick up from school and soon a buggy. Because I will have to get the bus at school time.

On our buses (NE Scotland) the sign says that it is a wheelchair space and buggies/prams may use it if there is no wheelchair but that LEGALLY you must give way to a wheelchair user (fold buggy or reposition pram). I don't know what law that is though.

I use buses a lot some of which is with a buggy. I always plan to potentially fold so have stuff in a rucksack rather than loose under the buggy. I normally have to fold for a bus with stairs (with a wheelchair lift) but sometimes for a wheelchair or other buggies.

It might be inconvenient to fold a buggy but wheelchair has priority.

littledrummergirl not even close.

I can't physically use a carrier due to a neurological problem. Even if I could, I couldn't keep the second child safe while I fold the buggy, nor would I have anywhere to put it. And there's no way I could safely hold a one on my knee on a seat while the other is on my back.