WHBU ? (Wheelchair vs. Buggy)

[DisabilityIsALifestyleChoice]

(NC'd but old hand here)

DH tends to chat in various discussion groups, and yesterday, in a discussion about roads told someone to fuck off.

Here's the conversation which started around using buses and how everyone should do it to relieve road congestion,

DH:
And wheelchair users can wait all day, and still not get a bus if there are people refusing to move their baby buggies.

POSTER:
What are parents to do if they have a child in a buggy, some shopping
underneath, so it cannot be folded and cannot relinquish their position and get a later bus, because they have to be at school for a particular time to pick up their 5 year-old child?

DH:
That's choice, compared to the necessity to use a wheelchair.

POSTER:
It's not choice if you have to do the shopping so as to have an evening meal, have a young child that you have to bring with you and need to pick up the other child from school. The wheelchair user may well have much more choice, as many can walk short distances and chairs
can fold. In some cases, their journey may be purely frivolous, unlike the example parent.

It was at this point DH suggested the poster "Go f* themselves".

I should add that obviously DH is sensitive to wheelchair users (which is what I am) and tries to be polite where he can (as befits his age, and maturity). But he's fretting now whether he was too abrupt .

I wonder what the vipers of AIBU think ? (For the record, I am 100% on his side, here ...)

I have to be honest I still think it should be first come first served. Saying that I would still get off for a wheelchair user (I am not gonna fold my pram) but I do feel pissed off about it especially as they never say "oh I'm really sorry" or whatever they just ignore you or half the time give you a dirty look!
Yeah, those disabled folk, being rude and entitled! Honestly are you serious, you'll have a pram for a few years and then your child, unlike mine will be able to walk. And guess what, your child, unlike mine, will grow into an adult, able to walk. How dare you assume that you're owed some sort of apology for a wheelchair user to access the one space on the bus that they can when you're too bone idle to either fold your pram and access the other forty odd seats available to you. I honestly think you are the person that needs a lesson in good manners.

He shouldn't really have told him to fuck off,but I totally understand where he's coming from OP. I wish people would remember that the space on buses was originally provided for WHEELCHAIRS. This was after disabled people had campaigned for a long time for public transport to be more accessible to disabled people. It's only because of this that people have been able to use it for buggies,IN THE ABSENCE OF A WHEELCHAIR. But no,as usual you get the over-entitled twats who think that it was put there for their use only. So little by little,it has become known as 'the buggy space',rather than the 'wheelchair space'.

I also agree with pp. The space on buses was created for people in wheelchairs after years of campaigning by disability advocacy groups. Yes, buggies can use it when a wheelchair user doesn't need it but it is 100 percent priority for people in wheelchairs.

No one needs to apologise for making you get out of their way! Also, sleeping baby is total BS. All buggies used to need to be folded and if you are regularly reliant on public transport get a small buggy that's easy to fold and / or put your baby in a sling. It's your job to anticipate that you might not always be able to use that space as its prioritised for those who have no alternatives and campaigned for it

When the dc were little we had one car. I used public transport a lot. As a result I owned one really sturdy pram/pushchair for walking and one lightweight, easy to fold buggy for the bus.
I also used a front carry harness and a backpack style carrier.
If I had shopping to get I walked or used a taxi.
Your dh wnbu but has missed the opportunity to educate.

'I do feel pissed off about it especially as they never say "oh I'm really sorry" or whatever they just ignore you or half the time give you a dirty look!'

The space would not be there at all if it were not for disabled people who campaigned for it. No one should apologise for being disabled.

Your dh wnbu but has missed the opportunity to educate.

Those sorts of posters never respond to being educated.

Whether the wheelchair user is in a rush or not us irrelevant. The world is not as accessible to them and so we, as socially responsible people need to help make things easier for them. Otherwise what if next time the wheelchair user just stays at home because people with prams have made then feel a burden. Or they don't go for a pint with their mates because it's too much hassle getting a bus. Think of the bigger picture and think about people's feelings, it's not just about who is most inconvenienced.

Your dh was very ur.

People should be able to express their own differing opinions without being verbally abused. If he finds it hard to remain calm when discussing the matter he needs to step away from any conversations involving wheelchairs.

The wheelchair user may well have much more choice, as many can walk short distances and chairs
can fold

Such a silly statement, my wheelchair does not fold, very few do.

I've never had a car always relied on public transport including when I had newborns. Both of mine survived being woken up if I had to fold their buggy down because someone needed to use the wheelchair space. Even in my hometown which is notoriously unfriendly people were patient for the entire 60 seconds it took me to take the baby and shopping out fold down the buggy and take a seat. Plenty of people are happy to hold the baby while you do it too including the bus drivers. I don't really understand the drama. Get on with it. Collapsing a wheelchair and forcing a disabled person to sit elsewhere on the bus is presumably a lot more of a faff

I do feel pissed off about it especially as they never say "oh I'm really sorry" or whatever they just ignore you or half the time give you a dirty look!"

What exactly is it that you're expecting them to apologise for? If it's basic good manners you're after, that works both ways. I use the bus on a daily basis and I often sit in the fold down seats at the front if they're empty and the rest of the bus is full. On the odd occasion that someone in a wheelchair gets on, or someone with mobility problems, or an elderly person, they thank me for moving every time, even though they have far more need of the seat than I do. Perhaps it's just the parents in my area, but I can't remember the last time someone with a pram even acknowledged the fact that I had moved for them so they could sit down with their pram, rather than have to stand next to it. not to mention people who take up three fold up seats with huge prams, then get their toddlers out of the pram so they can take up seats at the back as well as the front

OP, I think that there are probably better ways to win an argument than telling someone to fuck off, but in light of her suggestion that some wheelchair users don't really need to be using their chairs and could probably walk to the next stop, he shouldn't feel too bad about it.

they are usually given a follow on ticket

Arriva don't give follow-on tickets so anyoushchaorusers doing the right thing and leaving the bus to make way for a wheelchair user (in an instance where they can't fold the buggy) will actually be penalised by having to pay twice. Arriva's attitude is that if you choose to leave the bus then tough, that's your journey completed as far as they're concerned.

anyoushchaorusers = any pushchair users

The space is there because people with disabilities fought long and hard for them.

Having one available when you have a buggy is a nice extra but shouldn’t be assumed it’ll be available as there’s a good chance a wheelchair user will need the space. Parents should buy a suitable buggy for public transport if that’s how they will be travelling, if they really must choose a massive unfoldable one then they should be prepared to get off and wait for the next bus, or travel early to allow for occasions they’ll need to get off when someone with priority gets on.

Having to unload and fold a pram is a hassle but for most, it’s a temporary hassle, if selfish parents can’t be relied upon to do the right thing and give the wheelchair user the space that wheelchair users fought for then maybe all buggies (not sn ones) should all be folded on boarding?

On similar threads like this I’ve seen many posters be horrified at the suggestion a fellow passenger hold their baby while they fold buggy, or say having a child is like being disabled. Same type of people usually complain about blue badge holders legally parking in the parent and child spaces.

Redpriestandmozart exactly there's that and surely easier to fold a buggy then a wheelchair in the first place. Don't get why this comes up so much. Surley clue is in the name of the space and yet...

Err if someone gets of the bus for you it's polite to apologise!! Same way if someone got off their seat for you you would say thanks! Surely you wouldn't just sit down in it and glare at them. Sorry/thanks either will do.

Apologise to someone not disabled for moving from the disabled space?

Nope!

So if someone was in a priority seat and a elderly lady got on and the person got up to give them her seat, the elderly lady shouldn't say sorry/thanks. Riggggght. So those who said they've never come across anyone in a wheel chair who wasn't apologetic or polite clearly there are people who think they don't have to be. So not hard to believe wheelchair users sometimes feel the same. It's lacking manners IMO. Just because your disabled doesn't mean all manners go out the window.

Why would a priority passenger apologise for needing a priority seat?? Genuinely baffled!

Not everyone can fold their buggy down. It's not always possible. I have 13 month old twins, they can't safely stand or sit in a seat while I fold their buggy, and I'd have no way to keep them safe during the journey. I can't drive to due medications I'm on and chronic illness. I absolutely dread having to get the bus because of this issue and avoid it whenever possible but one of my sons has a serious health issue and I often have to take the bus to get him to the hospital since it's the only way if my husband isn't here to drive us. Can't even take them in a cab as I can't hold them both.

I've always believed that chair users should get priority, but I do wonder what I'm supposed to do if my son needs to be at the hospital? I often have to let multiple buses pass because the buggy area is full, or even has one buggy in it (my double buggy takes up the whole space).

I really am curious what others think I should do.

Wow some people seriously lack manners! And this is what pisses me off about getting of the bus. I've had people give up there seat for me when I'm pregnant and have always been very polite in taking it. I don't just plonk myself down.

Your DH was wrong to swear but obviously not wrong in the point he was making. There are people who don’t understand why the history of these spaces matters, and they probably wouldn’t care even if they did.

The poster who mentioned Arriva is correct - they don’t do follow on tickets as far as I’m aware, and this is obviously wrong, and certainly won’t help any contentious situation either. Arriva buses in my experience do tend to have a wheelchair space and a buggy space although no idea on the legalities of that if two wheelchair uses needed to get on the bus and there was a buggy in the buggy space. Not even sure if they are allowed to designate a buggy space?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying thanks for vacating the space though, if a person with a buggy gets off the bus for a wheelchair user to be able to use the space. No rudeness at all is needed from either party.

Gf