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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if anyone in rl has ever actually met anyone who is 'offended by a poppy?

489 replies

Whatsername17 · 29/10/2017 12:52

My Facebook feed is full of memes declaring that people are going to 'wear their poppy with pride and they don't care who they offend'. My nan is the latest culprit and I've called her out on it. Cue lots of her friends spouting racist bollocks about people not being able to sell them blah blah. My nan spouting shit about what a good heart I have because I can't see the bad in people. Angry I'm 34. I'm not a fucking child. And breathe!

OP posts:
Emillee · 30/10/2017 21:34

From an Australian perspective, it's simply heavily associated with the World Wars and remembering the war dead. I had no idea there was even any debate about it until this thread.

In the UK, especially after Iraq and Afghanistan, the Poppy has become symbolic, for some, of support for all war dead, as well as serving troops, thanks to charities such as Help for Heroes.

There are some who believe there is now almost a fetishism around serving troops and that to be seen not to support them wholeheartedly is unpatriotic.

It hasn't been helped by the spreading of rubbish (as seen in the OP) by various extremist groups, trying to push their own right wing agenda.

Emillee · 30/10/2017 21:36

Some people from Ireland are anti Poppy because they are anti UK troops, thanks to the quaintly named 'Troubles'

Tapandgo · 30/10/2017 21:44

You should be able to choose to wear one or not to wear one without any inferences being made. The poppy fascism that has emerged over recent years is disturbing. Nobody should make assumptions if you don't wear one - or indeed if you do.

theymademejoin · 30/10/2017 21:45

Plus the 800 years of oppression prior to the Troubles.

I, and a few other posters, have explained some of the issues we have in previous posts. I have also pointed out the meaning behind the poppy campaign as defined on the website of the British Legion. The remembrance and commemoration and is limited to British military and their allies and incorporates all military actions, not just the world wars.

Moussemoose · 30/10/2017 21:50

The British Legion supports the veterans not the actions.

theymademejoin · 30/10/2017 21:55

Yes, but I find it objectionable that those who committed atrocities such as Bloody Sunday are being supported.

Moussemoose · 30/10/2017 21:57

Members of the public wear the paper poppy on their chest as a symbol of Remembrance: to remember the fallen Service men and women killed in conflict

From the British Legion website.

This is why I wear a poppy. To remember the young men who fought and died. Their government asked them to serve and they did. The actions of the government may have been, wrong and misguided and resulted in injustice but I am still going to remember their sacrifice.

MynewnameisKy · 30/10/2017 22:00

SuperBeagle the attempt to justify shootings like this man with learning disabilities shot in back not to mention countless others would be very fresh in a lot of people's memories.

theymademejoin · 30/10/2017 22:01

Even when they brutally murdered innocent people, as in Ireland, Northern Ireland, the boer war, the mau mau massacre, etc etc? Many of these actions were not at the behest of the government but were committed by small groups or individuals, albeit safe in the knowledge that their government would not take them to task.

LivLemler · 30/10/2017 22:04

You blame today's service men and women for modern day wars?

Well, I certainly don't admire them for signing up, or want to financially support them.

BertrandRussell · 30/10/2017 22:12

Harry Smith on poppies

Moussemoose · 30/10/2017 22:16

theymademejoin

Again the British Army, like any army, has made many mistakes. The British armed forces have also saved lives.

Could I suggest you donate some money to the Irish veterans of WW2 who were treated disgracefully by the Irish government and the Irish population and so we are all helping veterans of a war most people see as just.

Moussemoose · 30/10/2017 22:21

BertrandRussell

Interesting article and a compelling argument as to why we should make teaching of history compulsory to 16.

We allow history to be used and abused by politicians to promote a particular cause rather than giving people the skills to draw their own conclusions.

theymademejoin · 30/10/2017 22:31

I think the British army has made more "mistakes" than most other western armies. The army was welcomed by the nationalist community when they first arrived in Northern Ireland as they believed they would protect them from the loyalist brutality and discrimination. It was the actions of the British army that resulted in that attitude changing.

Yes, Irish men who served in the British army were treated poorly. However, in the historical context, it is understandable. We had just attained independence a year prior to the outbreak of WW2.

While I do agree that in hindsight WW2 was a just war, I do not believe Britain declared war for any reason other than protecting their own interests. There are many, many atrocities that have been ignored by the British (and others too obviously) as to declare war would not be in their best interests.

loopsdefruit · 30/10/2017 22:41

I have come across people that are offended by the poppy, I got talked at for a while about how awful the army is and how it romanticises war, but they didn't do anything else about me wearing one, and I think they maybe bought a white poppy as a protest. Each to their own. I do think that the fb rants refer to the 'foreigners' who are offended by the poppy, and I don't think there are many of those situations IRL.

BonnieF · 30/10/2017 23:34

I have stopped wearing poppies, not because I am 'offended' by them, but because I object to the way in which people who don't wear poppies get singled out and criticised.

I have no objection to poppies, but I strongly object to compulsory virtue-signalling.

deaddeadgood · 31/10/2017 06:39

I agree with Harry Smith.
There will be door to door sellers in my area and I will try not to answer the door to them.
It's all been twisted into jingoism these days rather than remembrance.

Moussemoose · 31/10/2017 07:25

I think the British army has made more "mistakes" than most other western armies

OK - you lecture others on historical ignorance while displaying your own massive lack of knowledge. Can you discuss French assimilation policy compared to the British attitude to Empire? Belgium? Denmark?

You are spouting bias and prejudice. Seeing the British as all bad and Ireland as incapable of making mistakes. No one has attempted to justify the poor behaviour of the British on this thread but you justify appalling behaviour by the Irish.

You are obviously incapable of applying historical perspective. You have taken on the sins of the oppressor. The British behaved badly and for centuries manipulated history you are now doing the same.

MynewnameisKy · 31/10/2017 07:32

Mousemouse the IRA was not a state army. Despite it's name it wasn't an army run by the government.

I would agree though mistakes made on all sides and mistakes still being made.

Moussemoose · 31/10/2017 07:37

MynewnameisKy

I know!

I was referring to the way the Irish government treated WW2 veterans!

They were isolated and denied benefit and support. They were ostracised by the general public and many kept their war history secret because they would not get jobs if people knew.

Many men kept their medals hidden and suffered greatly for fighting the Nazis. This treated even after the worst of the Nazi atrocities were made public.

The Irish dislike of the British army was more important than fighting a regime that instigated the Holocaust.

Moussemoose · 31/10/2017 07:43

"theymademejoin*

I have deliberately not mentioned Empire because the thread is about the poppy which came from WW1 but as you've gone there.

I assume you are prepared to take responsibility for the Irish role in the Opium war. The Opium war being one of the more disgraceful episodes of Empire.

You have suggested soldiers are responsible for their own actions. I blame governments but you put the blame firmly on individuals. So Ireland's role in repressing the colonies - please discuss!

Bertsfriend · 31/10/2017 08:08

My grandmother's neighbours had a 15 year old son. He was beaten to death in front of his parents by four british soldiers. The father was also killed, it was because they couldn't speak English. To the poster who asked why the Irish are reluctant to buy poppies.

Moussemoose · 31/10/2017 08:11

Bertsfriend

The British behaved appallingly in Ireland. British solders also saved lives and helped push back Nazism. History is more nuanced than good and bad.

Lots of Irish men died in WW1 and WW2 and are supported by the RBL.

Many Irish people buy and wear poppies for the later reason.

Fekko · 31/10/2017 08:16

I went to a memorial service when I was 17 for a classmate who was shot by the IRA. He joined the army when he left school and it was his first tour. A classmate at uni had scars up his arms from when his vehicle was blown up and the others died. He was a teen then too.

It's just not black and white.