To think the break up of Europe has begun !

[mountford100]

Catalonia first Flanders next and the creation of the state of Northern Italy Lega Nord.

Is this the start of the collapse of integrated states within Europe.
Surely this must give encouragement for the creation of Flanders and a legal break from the Wallonian controlled state of Belgium.

Then we can envisage Florence, Milan, Turin ,Trieste, Venice, Bologna and Pisa . The Northern League splitting from Rome.

The death of the European Union is assured.

However, i find it quite hilarious how Donald Tusk , and his Teressa May like tweet that nothing has changed. This despite the EU protestations a few weeks ago that Catalonia would be kicked out of the European Union with immediate effect if independence from Spain was declared.

I think we are seeing the shoe on the other foot with regards to the European Union and its power.

Just leaving this here

www.ft.com/content/78b4ded6-51ce-11e7-bfb8-997009366969

Apparently support for the EU has been on the rise since Brexit, even in the UK. One to think about OP?

My view is that it may turn out to be the end of the nation state as we know it but Europe may actually end up stronger if the regions were to split from their respective states. As far as I know: they all want to stay within the European Union.

If you think the break up of Yugoslavia went well you are a fuckwit.

did you read the first part of my post that talked about the sheer scale of destruction of lives and the social fabric?

If that was to me then yes I did. I wasn't disputing or minimising it in any way. I know Yugoslavia was a hell hole for years. I see don't see any way how the country could have broken up peacefully though given the simmering ethnic hatred. And I think those wars could easily still be going one. Nationalism like that brings nothing but death and destruction as far as I can see.

My point is, it was NEVER going to go well and could have gone a lot worse.

isn’t there another thread about a topic you know fuckall about where you could be posting less embarrassingly?

Yugoslavia was not a ‘hellhole’

Dissolution was definitely in the cards post Tito but the idea that the level of violence was inevitable is on the one hand totally ignorant and on the other, dehumanising. Can’t expect any better of those savage Balkan people, hey?

Yes, you're right, they should have all sat around a table and agreed to move out of villages they'd lived in for generations. It should have all been fine.

Fakename no, it didn't. Genocide isn't a sign of something going well. If you think Srebrenica was good, then give your head a wobble. There are still undercurrents rumbling there, and it could all kick off again.

myesprit You need to qualify that with some other countries. The V4 are increasingly disenchanted with the mood music coming from Brussels, and how the results of the Austrian and Czech elections play out will be interesting.

mountford100 what's your passion?

Hi, people did leave villages they lived in for generations anyway. Leaving with nothing but what they could carry, before the worst could happen. Sometimes it did anyway.

Not all did, plenty died there, and worse. I knew/know some of those people.

You are showing your whole ass with your callousness on this thread. Shame on you

There are still undercurrents rumbling there, and it could all kick off again.

Yes, my point exactly, it could have been a lot worse, it could still be ongoing and could kick off again. And I don't think any of it was 'good and I think it was a diplomatic miracle it was ended. Thank god.

callousness on this thread

I'm not being callous, that implies I didn't care, didn't want it to end, was indifferent. I'm not disputing or minimising in any way what happened, I can't think of anything worse happening in Europe since WW2. I don't see any other way it could have realistically gone though. this isn't to say I think it was a good thing or a price worth paying for a number of independent states, I don't.

Yugoslavia was not a hellhole. It certainly turned into one. I had a colleague who came to the uk during the conflict. She was deeply traumatised at how her neighbours turned on each other. She had friends and family killed, imprisoned and ‘disappeared.’ This from a calm, middle class neighbourhood where people had just lived their lives seemingly getting on ok. She said it wasn’t so much the violence that disturbed her, it was how the social order she thought existed disappeared.

If we think that can’t happen again, we are deluded. It can. And it probably will.

I said to my husband last year that I’d put money on there being armed conflict in Europe in the next ten years. Now I think I’d put money on five.

Or they will form some soviet style super state.

Yes I remember the almost shock and surprise in the press and government that this could have in a modern European nation, with modern educated people. I agree, Yugoslavia should be a lesson for us all, unfortunately, I don't think we ever learn.

could have happened

I think Transylvania will break too from from Romania at some point.

It was almost as if we thought people with TVs and cars don't go to war.

People used to go on holiday to Yugoslavia, one minute it was like Spain or France, just like Home but with beach & sun - the next minute it was at war with all the atrocities that went with it. I was a teenager when it happened but remember being so shocked that a country like that could end up in a civil war.

Don't want to derail this interesting
propably paid for discussion but Eìre/Ireland is actually the official , constitutional name of the state that makes up the majoritity of the island of Ireland. Eìre is the Irish language , Ireland , the English word - sorry for stating the obvious. If you are speaking English , or operating in non Irish language political and legal circles , Ireland is the name to be used.

Confusion has arisen certainly over the years as for political reasons the U.K. governments could not/ would use the name Ireland , as it was seen to give credence to the Irish State's claim to the 6 counties, so Eìre was used instead. Over the years this usage was deemed by Ireland as derogatory, not without reason.

However, to confuse things, the Republic of Ireland is the legal description of the state of Ireland (The Republic of Ireland Act 1948) and is used to distinguish between the two political areas on the Island of Ireland. It is not the official, constitutional name of the Irish State but is a legal definition .

Under the Good Friday Agreement, the U.K. Government agreed to use 'Ireland ' when referring to the Irish State .In return the Irish Government decided it could stomach the use of the name 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.
This still causes difficulty , depending on who's talking and is not always adhered to by the current UK Government

Note that Eìre/Ireland is the name of Ireland in the EU, in that order. Never referred to the ROI in EU documentation. This is because Irish is recognised as an official EU language and there is no historic difficulties with the use of Eire in the EU.

Hope this helps

Oh and by the way , anyone who celebrates the rise of the factional nation state as a fabulous opportunity for peace, prosperity and the advancement of mankind has obviously never opened a history book.

Oh and by the way , anyone who celebrates the rise of the factional nation state as a fabulous opportunity for peace, prosperity and the advancement of mankind has obviously never opened a history book.

So true.

Great to see that we are all on the same page, no division, no war, no secession, no anything. Are we back in the Sixties and love everyone or what now?

Eire is no longer accepted by the Republic of Ireland or anywhere else except by some people in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It is a post Colonial derogatory term. And that is the truth. Anyone that uses "Eire" is immediately dismissed as a post colonial Empire nutter, and uneducated too. So there!

Probably voted for Brexit too. There will be statisticians doing this analysis soon.

No more using Eire. It is wrong now. Thank you.

Thank you Six i don't feel so bad now.. As i have said despite personally being English, my ancestry goes back 200 years to Ireland. I have visited relatives many times both in the Republic and in Northern Ireland .I had no intention of upsetting anyone by using what i knew to be the correct constitutional name.

Having had that explained, i totally get why a English/British person using that name might cause offence.

I am not celebrating the rise of Catalonia , i just don't like the fact that Spain has refused a vote on nationhood for at least 10 years .