To think the break up of Europe has begun !

[mountford100]

Catalonia first Flanders next and the creation of the state of Northern Italy Lega Nord.

Is this the start of the collapse of integrated states within Europe.
Surely this must give encouragement for the creation of Flanders and a legal break from the Wallonian controlled state of Belgium.

Then we can envisage Florence, Milan, Turin ,Trieste, Venice, Bologna and Pisa . The Northern League splitting from Rome.

The death of the European Union is assured.

However, i find it quite hilarious how Donald Tusk , and his Teressa May like tweet that nothing has changed. This despite the EU protestations a few weeks ago that Catalonia would be kicked out of the European Union with immediate effect if independence from Spain was declared.

I think we are seeing the shoe on the other foot with regards to the European Union and its power.

I just looked up 'Lega Nord' and what struck me was like Brexit the people voting for it are across the political spectrum and from all social classes.

It is not defined as a left or right wing party . Obviously it applies populist policies, its defamation of Southern Italy and immigration could be seen as right wing. However, it declares some of the Socialists who lost their lives standing up to Mussolini as the greatest hero's .

Perhaps they see the creation of Padania as a long term project. However, with the speed of events witnessed over the last two years a long term project can become an immediate opportunity.

Goodness go read some history.

OP your post is a ridiculous fear-mongering overreaction. The Catalonia situation is largely to do with the fact that Spain never really healed the wounds of its civil war, not to do with the EU.

OP you forgot to mention Canvey Island

Imagine what'll happen when the North/Sarf London war breaks out....

Cease your bullshit propaganda OP. Go back to your computer game, Shoo!

I don't think any of those smaller states will break away from their countries. But the EU as it stands today won't survive. And that's a good thing. IMHO. What a myth that being in the EU helps national security. It doesn't. Any hint of trouble and it will be every country for itself.

scaryteacher

"being part of a federated EU would give them security".
How? Being part of NATO would do that, but being part of the EU doesn't achieve that.

Well security does not just mean weapons, it could be political, legal, economic security.

Frameworks, might be a better word. A region -country - might gain independence from a nation state that has controlled them but still have the legal and political framework of the EU to support them.

Basic federalism similar to the US local laws and politics but secured by a larger body.

This despite the EU protestations a few weeks ago that Catalonia would be kicked out of the European Union with immediate effect if independence from Spain was declared.

As Catalonia is not an independent country, this is not possible and would not have reported responsibly anywhere. I lost interest once I read that OP.

I get your general theme though, about independence. But it is not what you think.

Oh Jesus. Aren’t their age restrictions on joining MN. Somebody check what their DC are up to

Why is it Bull Shit that regions want self governance !

There is even the talk that California has had enough of being in the USA

'Calexit' has support within the state. I am not saying anything will come of it but regions, states have the right to self government if that is their wish.

If California seceded, I would apply for citizenship immediately.

Well I suppose Europe could devolve into all the little principalities that it once used to be. But the idea of a loose federation was always around, not so much the concept of nationhood.
Bureaucratic nightmare to administer or govern, though!

No Catalonia was threatened that the minute they become an accepted country via the United Nations they would cease to be members of the European Union. The same thing was said to Scotland.

Obviously the European Union is in such a state , they would throw nobody out , but they still issue threats to people doing things they don't like.

Sorry shhh

It might be mine

I'll turn off the WiFi and see if it stops

Other European countries have broken apart and it worked out ok after a period of adjustment, like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. And Catalonia wouldn't be that small a country by itself, there are other small countries that are self-sustaining. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't descend into civil war whichever way it works out.

So how do you feel about Ukraine being independent, Mountford?

when states see how buggered we are by Brexit, they will not remotely want to leave the EU. Indeed all opinion polls in european countries show interest in leaving the EU has dropped since the referendum.

I think (like Scotland) Catalonia would desperately want to be in the EU if it got independence.

OP you know also know fuck all about Italy or indeed about Italian politics. I'm a bit fed up of people from the UK or Moscow pontificating about countries they know nothing about and of which they do not speak the language.
As for stuff read/watched/listened to in the UK press, I do wonder about the bias if the reporting. It's as if everything is being looked at through the Brexshit prism. Like the Italian referendum a while ago, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the EU as it would have been unconstitutional to do so!

All this glee about other countries' strife, real or perceived. Absolutely shameful.

The Brexit Ultras are obviously getting very concerned indeed.

I just looked up 'Lega Nord' So you just looked it up and then felt confident enough to decide that several completely unrelated cities are going to join in and declare independence ...you must be some sort of expert!

Smaller communities are the way forward IMHO.

A lot of us here are very upset. Puigdemont is using skewed figures to push his own agenda.
In the vote only 43% of people actually voted. Most of those were yes voters, the no voters didn't vote because the vote was illegal and didn't count.
Of the 43%, 90% voted yes. 2.4 million, there are 7.5 million in Catatonia, hardly a majority is it!
Now he has used that to say that Catalonia has spoken and wants independence.
No.
Companies are leaving, no EU. The wealth that the pro independence camp speak of is/will be gone.

I have more sensible and reasoned thinking about world politics from my 10 year old dd.

No expert, just another bot/probable troll who non capisce una minchia come al solito

Sorry, that was to allegretto