Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the break up of Europe has begun !

164 replies

mountford100 · 27/10/2017 15:50

Catalonia first Flanders next and the creation of the state of Northern Italy Lega Nord.

Is this the start of the collapse of integrated states within Europe.
Surely this must give encouragement for the creation of Flanders and a legal break from the Wallonian controlled state of Belgium.

Then we can envisage Florence, Milan, Turin ,Trieste, Venice, Bologna and Pisa . The Northern League splitting from Rome.

The death of the European Union is assured.

However, i find it quite hilarious how Donald Tusk , and his Teressa May like tweet that nothing has changed. This despite the EU protestations a few weeks ago that Catalonia would be kicked out of the European Union with immediate effect if independence from Spain was declared.

I think we are seeing the shoe on the other foot with regards to the European Union and its power.

OP posts:
allegretto · 27/10/2017 16:56
Grin
Vitalogy · 27/10/2017 16:57

Why is it Bull Shit that regions want self governance ! Exactly. Better that than one world government, because that's what they truly want. God, I hope the people can pull it off. Good luck to them.

Ausparent · 27/10/2017 16:59

On the Eu front, it is not that Catalonia would be kicked out, they are not a member and would need to apply the same as any new country, proving that they meet the criteria and making the necessary commitments. You can't just have membership because you were once part of another country which is a member.

Spain would have veto over their application because the member states have this. It is why Turkey joining was never realistic.

It was because Spain and Belgium both said they would veto that Scotland wouldn't be allowed to join, not wanting to create a precedent for Catalonia, the Basque country and Flanders.

I also wonder how many anti independence voters turned out to vote in a referendum the country they want to stay part of declared illegal?

PerkingFaintly · 27/10/2017 16:59

They?

SummerLightning · 27/10/2017 17:00

I live in California and have only ever seen Calexit mentioned by russian bots on twitter.

Melassa · 27/10/2017 17:02

As with Catalonia, the no voters in the automous region elections in Italy didn't vote as it was all a load of bollocks and they were against the referendum. In Lombardy the quorum was set very low and they just squeaked it.

scaryteacher · 27/10/2017 17:02

I really don't see that the EU has provided any of that for the UK at least Moussemoose
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/the-eu-does-not-preserve-peace-in-europe--instead-it-has-brought/

www.goodreads.com/quotes/565258-the-most-puzzling-development-in-politics-during-the-last-decade

Oh yes, frameworks - like the pogroms and the 5 year plans? One size doesn't fit all - if the those running the EU hadn't worked that out when they saw the wall come down in 89, then they are deluded.

I do not want to be part of a federated Europe thanks. It doesn't work - rules are broken or not applied, and the countries are fined and carry merrily on. The EU thinks it provides frameworks, but when push comes to shove, they don't work - Greece being a case in point. The EU is a house of cards, and it won't take that much more to bring it down. There is no solidarity there, each country is out for what they can get.

BCNChica · 27/10/2017 17:04

*I also wonder how many anti independence voters turned out to vote in a referendum the country they want to stay part of declared illegal?

Not many.

If the vote had been legal and all the people who could and wanted to vote, knowing their vote would count, I think the outcome would have probably been vastly different.

Original poster
mountford100 · 27/10/2017 17:05

Well the Spanish government made a pigs ear of it . This considering that before they used the thuggish Gardia Civil to stop people voting, the perception was 55% of Catalans were in favor of remaining Spanish.

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 27/10/2017 17:06

TBF, SummerLightning, there are some real life "Calexit" promoters:

"'I immigrated to California, and I consider myself to be a Californian,' Marinelli says from his apartment in Yekaterinburg, a city of about 1.4 million just east of the Ural Mountains and about 1,000 miles from Moscow."
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/is-russia-behind-a-secession-effort-in-california/517890/

PerkingFaintly · 27/10/2017 17:06

And Ukraine, Mountford?

nancy75 · 27/10/2017 17:07

Other European countries have broken apart and it worked out ok after a period of adjustment, like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.
I would strongly hope that this doesn’t go the same way as the break up of Yugoslavia - I don’t think that is the best example of what we would want for Spain/Cataluna

BCNChica · 27/10/2017 17:07

Well the Spanish government made a pigs ear of it

I think both sides agree with that.

littlebird77 · 27/10/2017 17:07

In reality what we are seeing now is a very dangerous development, and we should all be sending prayers to Catalonia and Spain for a peaceful revolution....

If the Spanish army isn't in Catalonia by midnight at the latest I will be very relieved....

Madrid should have offered a legal referendum spelling out the positives of the union, they had their chance to deal with this peacefully and democratically but choose not to.....I think they will regret that decision at some point in the not so distant future.

scaryteacher · 27/10/2017 17:10

Yes, I really liked the 'it worked out OK for Yugoslavia'. Erm, took a lot of blood to get there though.

BCNChica · 27/10/2017 17:14

It's making a lot of us angry because of the reporting. The separatists are the minority. The majority do not want independence. The way it being reported is as if all of Catalonia is cheering, it's not.

Heratnumber7 · 27/10/2017 17:16

Northern Ireland could very possibly leave the UK or become a part of a united Ireland

I think that boat has sailed.**

Motheroffourdragons · 27/10/2017 17:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

flyingpigsinclover · 27/10/2017 17:20

Then Europe will be lots of little separate countries.

That started back in the late 80s/early 90s with the fall of communism.

Trueheart1 · 27/10/2017 17:21

Freedom for Tooting

PerkingFaintly · 27/10/2017 17:23

Many of which promptly applied to join the EU.

They're independent countries. Which are voluntarily members of a larger block, because they see benefits to not being completely alone.

scaryteacher · 27/10/2017 17:24

Had this been 11 years ago Mother when we first moved here, there might have been more takers for Flanders going. Vlaams Belang posters and slogans everywhere; beatings of some non Flemish...it looked quite nasty, and de Wevers didn't help matters. It's got quieter over recent years, but I think it's still there simmering away underneath.

tiggytape · 27/10/2017 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doramaybe · 27/10/2017 17:30

Brexit regret masquerading as "look over there".

No it won't work.

Europe will be united for a long time to come, but UK will have to paddle its own canoe.

Catalonia is a piss take. They might get a Quebecois solution though, remember that one? All sorted now and everyone is happy.

EU is here to stay and the UK will not put them off track at all. They are just laughing at us every step of the way for our hubris.

shhhfastasleep · 27/10/2017 17:30

Hate to say it because I like her but Leanne Wood is an idiot.

Swipe left for the next trending thread