To think the break up of Europe has begun !

[mountford100]

Catalonia first Flanders next and the creation of the state of Northern Italy Lega Nord.

Is this the start of the collapse of integrated states within Europe.
Surely this must give encouragement for the creation of Flanders and a legal break from the Wallonian controlled state of Belgium.

Then we can envisage Florence, Milan, Turin ,Trieste, Venice, Bologna and Pisa . The Northern League splitting from Rome.

The death of the European Union is assured.

However, i find it quite hilarious how Donald Tusk , and his Teressa May like tweet that nothing has changed. This despite the EU protestations a few weeks ago that Catalonia would be kicked out of the European Union with immediate effect if independence from Spain was declared.

I think we are seeing the shoe on the other foot with regards to the European Union and its power.

[SixInTheBed]

Yes, would agree with you on that for sure Baby. Can't see the EU breaking ranks on that .

[SixInTheBed]

Baby that's an interesting chart but I'm not sure if I'd rely on it , given the section about nationalism in NI references the tiny ten people at a push group who support Ulster as an independent state , with no mention of the other, rather larger and more active nationalist groups, although I see where they were going with it

Leaving that aside I understand many of these groups would continue to support membership of the EU, so even if state borders were redrawn they would still want to remain part of the wider union.

[SixInTheBed]

Margaret I really think there is no speculation about which will be the next country to go. The car crash that is Brexit is the perfect deterrent.

[MargaretTwatyer]

In some ways it's beneficial for the EU. Better to have a new country clamouring to get in than speculation about which will be the next country to go out....

[mountford100]

You are just what ITV are looking for a new stand up show.

[mountford100]

Your very funny, i bet John Bishop is worrying about his job.

[PerkingFaintly]

Still, never mind, OP. At least you know lots about Crimea.

[mountford100]

I would be surprised if my mum knew that Six , she came to England when she was eight she is 71 now !

[scaryteacher]

Fake Yes, my point exactly, it could have been a lot worse, it could still be ongoing and could kick off again. And I don't think any of it was 'good and I think it was a diplomatic miracle it was ended. Thank god. What planet are you on? It couldn't have got much worse, and it wasn't ended diplomatically, it took NATO intervention and a lot of TLAMs to stop it.

This is from Wikipedia:
'Often described as Europe's deadliest conflicts since World War II, the wars were marked by many war crimes, including ethnic cleansing, crimes against humanity and rape. The Bosnian genocide was the first European crime since World War II to be formally judged as genocidal in character and many key individual participants were subsequently charged with war crimes.[21] The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) was established by the UN to prosecute these crimes.[22]

According to the International Center for Transitional Justice, the Yugoslav Wars resulted in the death of 140,000 people.[1] The Humanitarian Law Center estimates that in the conflicts in the former Yugoslav republics at least 130,000 people were killed.[2]

Do tell how it could have been a lot worse?

[SixInTheBed]

Eìre should only be used if you speaking/documenting in Irish ( or collecting stamps).

It should never be used by UK politicians, media or anyone unless they are speaking Irish, intend to cause offence or are truly ignorant of major political and historic issues. UK officials should not refer to Ireland as the ROI either.

Ireland is the official name of the state of Ireland. The ROI is a legal definition of the state. The Republic of Ireland is not the official name of the State of Ireland.

Irish people can call themselves whatever the hell they like ( see GFA)

Language, names have power. They give meaning, identity and status to countries and people. This is a big deal. For example, for anyone from that neck of the woods , Ukraine is, well , Ukraine, and not the Ukraine.

Think it might be just so much easier if we were just all European or something. Then no one can deliberately or inadvertently cause offence and we could work and live together in peace and co operation. Shame no one ever thought of that

[mountford100]

That is a miss interpretation of what i said. The answer i gave was to a leading question. I was just saying it makes no difference to me who/what organisations Catalonia join. The issues facing whether they can or can't join was not referenced by me.

[Motheroffourdragons]

Catalonia can be a member of whoever or whatever she wants to be

See that's not correct - if Catalonia wants to be part of the EU, the govt there will need to apply to the EU (or whoever or whatever) and either be accepted or rejected.

That could be a huge problem for them going forward.

[mountford100]

Thank you Six i don't feel so bad now.. As i have said despite personally being English, my ancestry goes back 200 years to Ireland. I have visited relatives many times both in the Republic and in Northern Ireland .I had no intention of upsetting anyone by using what i knew to be the correct constitutional name.

Having had that explained, i totally get why a English/British person using that name might cause offence.

I am not celebrating the rise of Catalonia , i just don't like the fact that Spain has refused a vote on nationhood for at least 10 years .

[Doramaybe]

Great to see that we are all on the same page, no division, no war, no secession, no anything. Are we back in the Sixties and love everyone or what now?

Eire is no longer accepted by the Republic of Ireland or anywhere else except by some people in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It is a post Colonial derogatory term. And that is the truth. Anyone that uses "Eire" is immediately dismissed as a post colonial Empire nutter, and uneducated too. So there!

Probably voted for Brexit too. There will be statisticians doing this analysis soon.

No more using Eire. It is wrong now. Thank you.

[fakenamefornow]

Oh and by the way , anyone who celebrates the rise of the factional nation state as a fabulous opportunity for peace, prosperity and the advancement of mankind has obviously never opened a history book.

So true.

[SixInTheBed]

Oh and by the way , anyone who celebrates the rise of the factional nation state as a fabulous opportunity for peace, prosperity and the advancement of mankind has obviously never opened a history book.

[SixInTheBed]

Don't want to derail this interesting
propably paid for discussion but Eìre/Ireland is actually the official , constitutional name of the state that makes up the majoritity of the island of Ireland. Eìre is the Irish language , Ireland , the English word - sorry for stating the obvious. If you are speaking English , or operating in non Irish language political and legal circles , Ireland is the name to be used.

Confusion has arisen certainly over the years as for political reasons the U.K. governments could not/ would use the name Ireland , as it was seen to give credence to the Irish State's claim to the 6 counties, so Eìre was used instead. Over the years this usage was deemed by Ireland as derogatory, not without reason.

However, to confuse things, the Republic of Ireland is the legal description of the state of Ireland (The Republic of Ireland Act 1948) and is used to distinguish between the two political areas on the Island of Ireland. It is not the official, constitutional name of the Irish State but is a legal definition .

Under the Good Friday Agreement, the U.K. Government agreed to use 'Ireland ' when referring to the Irish State .In return the Irish Government decided it could stomach the use of the name 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.
This still causes difficulty , depending on who's talking and is not always adhered to by the current UK Government


Note that Eìre/Ireland is the name of Ireland in the EU, in that order. Never referred to the ROI in EU documentation. This is because Irish is recognised as an official EU language and there is no historic difficulties with the use of Eire in the EU.

Hope this helps

[nancy75]

People used to go on holiday to Yugoslavia, one minute it was like Spain or France, just like Home but with beach & sun - the next minute it was at war with all the atrocities that went with it. I was a teenager when it happened but remember being so shocked that a country like that could end up in a civil war.

[fakenamefornow]

It was almost as if we thought people with TVs and cars don't go to war.

[Madreputa]

I think Transylvania will break too from from Romania at some point.

[fakenamefornow]

could have happened