Male postnatal depression

[Foxysoxy01]

Just caught a bit of This Morning with my coffee and they are talking about male postnatal depression.

Now I understand it is a massive change to both parents with a new baby and can quite believe that it could cause stress and worry, even depression for the non birthing partner but why would it have to be postnatal depression which feels more female and is a term used for women who have given birth?

The thing I have an issue with (maybe I'm an unreasonable cynical cow) does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?
It feels a little bit like taking away a real horrible issue that women who have given birth sometimes face and making it all about men again and how very hard they have it.

My AIBU is I'm I being a real in empathetic bitch or is this just another case of men having to take over women's experiences and issues? Or is it just a word I'm getting hung up on and technically it is actually correct that they may have postnatal depression?

The posters that have suggested the term 'Paternal Depression' rather than 'Postnatal Depression' have a really good idea.

It would then become easier to make the condition more widely known and talked about whilst not diluting (for want of a better word) the Post Natal depression some women unfortunately suffer.

Having read the thread and different posts I do think that the depression suffered after a birth will be different for men and women. I DO NOT think one is worse than the other, but women will have the added difficulties of hormones and the actual birth to contend with. Although men will have other issues that don't affect the woman as much/at all which is why I think using a different term would be better.

I also think that labelling it post natal depression may also make some men less likely to admit they have a problem and talk about it - exactly because they are worried they will be judged for having it or in a “macho” environment laughed at.

I don’t think lumping both together does either side any favours really.

I agree foxy and sirzy

I'm waiting to hear back about something before I engage any further with posters on this thread.

Probably best may

I think this is quite interesting

This large study, which followed nearly 87,000 families for several years, suggests that fathers are at risk of depression, especially in the first year of parenthood. However, the risk is lower than it is for new mothers, and we do not know how it compares to rates of depression among similar-aged adult males in general.

So does anyone know if PND in women is compared to similar aged adult females in general?

It really should more well known, could calling it something like paternal depression help men seek professional help and make it more easily understood?

There is "adjustment disorder" which is a term that does not seem to be so frequently used in the UK, but describes feelings of stress/ anxiety/depression after a major change(s) or stressful life event(s).

Clearly major life changes can bring to a head all sorts of issues for a person, which may have no chemical or hormonal component and it all seems to get labelled as 'depression' which becomes such a broad term that it struggles to cover all of the diverse symptoms and triggers of MH problems.

There is a part of me that feels that there PND or PPD should be able to describe the additionally stresses/ difficulties that women go through physically/ hormonally as well as emotionally during childbirth that men do not, but equally clearly some men have a strong stress/ depression type reaction to the event and so maybe "adjustment disorder (with depression and anxiety)" would be a fitting name.

Perhaps then "adjustment disorder" would be a helpful term to describe what some men experience after the birth of a child, but also for some women too who feel that their difficulties do not seem to be connected to hormones or a traumatic birth? It sounds like some posters here feel that this would might be a description they would prefer or that would fit better as well?

It would be nice if we can recognise that women and men have similarities and differences but can suffer in equal degrees at times, from the same or from different things.

I quite like the name "adjustment disorder" for a situational difficulty and/or reaction; it expresses the nature of the problem putting some focus on both the cause, the difficulty and the treatment - adjusting.

Sorry for the repeat bit in the middle of my post - got a major headache but trying to function still. Failing it seems!!

What makes you think men are "taking it from you"...?

That's an extremely self-important, callous way of thinking about things.

That's an extremely self-important, callous way of thinking about things

Men claiming PND is extremely self-important and callous, you are correct.
I doubt many would though.

That's an extremely self-important, callous way of thinking about things.

Definitely a baffling viewpoint. "Men are taking our depression and making it about them!"
That takes a special kind of self absorbed to think that way.

I had PND after the birth of my second child. I assumed that it was all hormonal.

I subsequently suffered dreadful Post Adoption Depression. Not something I believed possible and raised my eyebrow at when it was talked about during the Adoption course.

It was very real. Worse than the PND. I felt suicidal and was on antidepressants.

Why the need for titles for anything? Who really cares? What if a lesbian couple have a child and the one who didn't give birth becomes depressed? The "paternal" label doesn't work in that scenario.

Anyone can become depressed for any reason, hormones, events, trauma and often for no "reason". I can't honestly say whether my PND was hormonal or not.

I just know that the Post Adoption Depression was very real and my having not given birth to that child didn't minimise how utterly low I felt.

Parental depression then rosie

That takes a special kind of self absorbed to think that way

Well if its "self absorbed" to say that men cannot have one of the very few things that is by very definition only something women can get, then colour us all self absorbed.

You should be asking yourself why you feel the need to insist men can get something that is purely a womens issue. It's a really odd stance to take. Is it a MRA thing or just GFery?

From the NHS website:

Myths about postnatal depression:

Postnatal depression is often misunderstood and there are many myths surrounding it. These include:

Postnatal depression is entirely caused by hormonal changes. It's actually caused by many different factors.

Postnatal depression only affects women. Research has actually found that up to 1 in 25 new fathers become depressed after having a baby.

If my ex had PND he would have had it MUCH. Worse that me and needed sooo much 'looking after '
When actually it was me that wasn't well and couldn't cope

Should be called something else for men

NHS websites says plenty of things that aren't true.
They've been telling women to stay away from runny eggs while pregnant a decade past the point where they knew well there was no reason not to.

There will be no equality, ever, if we carry on with the attitude that men are taking things from women and vice versa. It’s not like it’s something I want to keep all for myself. Why can’t we understand that it’s a shitty thing for anyone to go through regardless of gender? Does it matter what it’s called?

edd

I think its a matter of education rather than what its called

But would a different name help in the education

here will be no equality, ever, if we carry on with the attitude that men are taking things from women and vice versa

There will be no equality, ever, when women are not even allowed to shittiest bits of womenhood left to them. When everything has to be co-opted and appropriated by men.

What is so difficult here? Men can be depressed after the birth of their child. They cannot have post natal depression.
Nothing is being said about relative levels of difficulty, need, or deservedness. Just reality.

It's like if I said men can't get cervical cancer and you start complaining that I must think prostate cancer doesn't matter. it's not about anything mattering more, its just the simple reality that men do not get postnatal depression, because they are not postnatal. They have not given birth.

This attitude is through the looking glass, tbh. In that fucked up world where we have to say pregnant person instead of woman, because we are all supposed to pretend that men can get pregnant too. Someone has to say enough, biology matters.

PND is caused by the massive drop in oestrogen after giving birth. Sometimes it can drop from well over 1000 p/mol to virtually zero in a very short time. If a woman has a history of PMS/intolerance of hormonal fluctuations she is likely to suffer PND. It can be so severe that is becomes post partum psychosis which usually results in the mother being committed to a specialist unit.

Men might become depressed after the birth of their baby but it will be due to the external stressors + tiredness etc. It isn't the organic/chemically induced depression that affects women.

Why is it always a competition? Why is drawing attention to men’s issues automatically diminishing woman’s issues? Why on earth is it ever acceptable to minimise MH issues regardless of sex?

This thread makes me sad actually and a lot of MN has made me realise recently that the feminism I always followed As uplifting woman, is now replaced with downplaying emotions of anyone who isn’t biologically a woman.

It's like if I said men can't get cervical cancer and you start complaining that I must think prostate cancer doesn't matter.

How on EARTH is that a comparison?!
Both men and women can get depression after childbirth. Men can't get cervical cancer as they don't have a cervix.
Nobody's saying one doesn't matter and the other doesn't.

How on EARTH is that a comparison?!

Because they are two different things. Cervical and prostate cancer, both types of cancer, but different, and only women get the former.
Post natal depression and depression after becoming a parent: both types of depression, but different, and only women get the former.

Nobody's saying one doesn't matter and the other doesn't

Well exactly, but people are getting angry saying "how dare you say mens depression doesn't matter", when no-one IS saying that. They are just saying its not post natal depression.

It's all very clear.

Ella you asked why it is if PND is purely hormonal, some women don't get it with each pregnancy.

As a life long sufferer of PMS there were some months when I felt absolutely evil and occasionally months where I had virtually zero PMS.

Same with why do some women get PMS and some don't? We all have periods, ovaries, uterus etc.

I do agree that other external factors play a role in PND but I believe that ultimately it is the initial hormonal drop that triggers the depression/anxiety which is then compounded by the stresses of exhaustions, physical issues etc.