To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

I have no interest whatsoever in other people's Christmas childcare arrangements.
It should be done fairly amongst all staff.
I Will do favours for people that return it, but I am not the office doormat purely because I've failed to conceive yet.

100% MrMeeseekscando

My mother told me that my marriage wouldn't have ended if I hadn't been too selfish to have children. I suppose she viewed years of physical and emotional abuse as irrelevant.

I struggled with this for 7 years after getting married, people constantly asking, are you not having any kids? We had been trying but no luck and it really hurt every time someone asked. I used to pretend we didn't want any /weren't ready yet.
We have 3 now, all pure miracles really.

Sorry ilovesooty but you really shouldn't have been so selfish. Sounds like you had yourself a right catch!

"But it seems to have turned into a debate about who deserves Christmas off."

My experience, in other threads on this site, is that it's incredibly incredibly hard to get an understanding of the need for people without children to talk about their own experience, without people who have children leaping in to derail the conversation or to provide inappropriate so-called reassurance. I had a thread where I was literally intoning "Let people who are childless talk about what they are going through when they came to accept that it wasn't going to happen for them" every other post and women were still coming in to say "I didn't think it would ever happen to me, but it did, and DD is a joy! A joy!" Even when they were directly challenged with the insensitivity of it in the context, they still claimed they were providing "hope".

I don't know why, but it's like it's just verboten for women to be granted a space to talk about this specific bit of female experience. It just makes people really, really uncomfortable.

This is turning into a meta-thread; a thread in which the unfolding of the thread itself illustrates the point!

Never challenge someone without children on why they’re not drinking. While TTC, I would often not drink. I found it upsetting when people started winking at each as though it meant as I was pregnant as I wasn’t, and really wanted to be.

I would say don’t automatically assume everything in their life is easier/less important than the life of someone with kids. Eg when I was having a really tough time at work last year and was exhausted, a good friend said “lol tell me how hard your job is when you’ve tried bringing up a 7 months old bottle refuser”.

Also, assuming that cancelling because of child related issues is more valid than other reasons. Yes, of course I’m not mad if you can’t come because your child is ill, but I wouldn’t be mad either if someone without children cancelled because eg they were ill themselves. This isn’t true of some of my friends with children who think as soon as they pull the child card they have carte blanche to cancel anything but get all uppity if someone without children cancels on them.

Finally never, EVER say “you’ll understand when you have one of your own”.

Placemarking.

I am one of a group of 4 friends, 2 will only conceive with help and one is going straight down the adoption route as her and her DH have compromised fertility.

Two of my friends are open and flexible, one is defensive and spiky re any conversation about fertility/conceiving/IVF/etc. I worry that every time i speak about my children I’m being insensitive. I find it hard to speak to friends 2&3 as friend 1 is like a sniper waiting to tell me off for not knowing how lucky I am to have children...and I’m not moaning.

Thank you for this thread user. It’s a sense checker for me to know I’ve not scored any points on the “bellend bingo” scorecard of “things not to say”

Xx

(Part of the problem on that thread was that women who had been through infertility and successfully had a child were equating their experience with that of women who hadn't - and it was almost impossible to create space for the latter group to speak).

I had some really hurtful comments when we went through years of trying all similar to what Angelica says.
We did end up adopting and now have to deal with the comments about the kids "real mum" meaning the woman that gave birth to them, who drunk heavily throughout pregnancy and took drugs and couldn't look after them.
Yep she is their "real mum"

I’m desperate to have children. We’ve been TTC for a long time now. It’s absolutely heartbreaking.
I have a colleague who tells me quite regularly that I should “get started” or she’ll ask if I’m going to have a kids soon. I make it what I think is quite obvious by saying something like “oh whenever we’re lucky enough to” or “yeah, hopefully very soon!” But she never seems to get it! What’s strange is that she’s in her late 40’s and is also childless, I’m not sure if my choice or not, but you’d think she’d understand a bit better!
I’m so with you on the Christmas thing too!!

Again OP it depends why they don't have children. I didn't want children til I was about 28, having got married at 20. I wasn't upset if asked why I didn't have kids...stock response was, 'bit difficult to get pregnant when dh is at sea in a submarine' and also pointed out we weren't ready to have children at that stage in our lives.

if by* choice or not

Nannplum666

I honestly think you need to just tell them to go fuck themselves.

Your love for YOUR children is no less than people who were able to have biological children.

On threads like this, there is usually a big split between those who don't have children through choice and those who cannot have children.

I was never offended by comments on when I'd have kids or such, I'd just respond with "maybe never", or "I don't think I want any". But that's because it was the truth.

Following the birth of DS I can't have more children, but also don't want any. People ask "when's the next one" and I just say "oh there won't be" or "DS broke me, but to be honest I'm glad, I do not want to do that again!". But again, it's the truth, so it doesn't bother me.

There isn't anything anyone could say to me about being child free or now the mother of an only that would offend or hurt me. But that's because I am happy and confident in my choices.

If that choice has been taken from you I suspect it is very different, as we can't instantly know whether those without children are so through choice people just shouldn't make comments.

I have two DC aged 2 and 4 and work in a busy, demanding industry.

I do not think I should get priority over my colleagues who do not have children (for whatever reason) when it's Christmas.

A colleague without children who wants time off to visit relatives, go hand gliding or sit at home watching DVDs whilst eating Celebrations has just a valid a claim to those days off as me.

I fell out with a colleague recently as I refused to back up her argument with our manager that 'parents' in our team deserve to get preferential treatment. It baffles me really.

I chose to have kids so if I want x days off over Xmas I should get my arse into gear and book it before someone else (my team operates a first come, first served policy)

If the dates are taken I can ask the whole team if anyone is willing to swap - not just team members without children - without piling on emotional blackmail about my kids suffering etc.

Of course I do understand the need for flexibility. I often ask my manager if I can be excused from a client trip abroad etc if it's not really necessary. However I don't demand anything to the detriment of my colleagues and expect it to be granted because I have children.

How many Christmas days do any of you actually remember from your childhood? No child is irretrievably damaged if their parent is not in the house for the whole of Xmas day. I'm also mindful it must also be immensely painful for any of my colleagues dealing with fertility problems (and statistically I assume there must be some) to hear
the "Xmas is all about kids so parents should get priority" mantra.

I have a colleague who tells me quite regularly that I should “get started” or she’ll ask if I’m going to have a kids soon.

The outstanding tactlessness of some folk just takes me breath away.

Fuck me sideways, why aren’t folk just sensible?!!!

And I've never, and still do not feel people with children of any age should get Christmas priority.

I agree that assuming that people without children automatically have easier lives with less responsibility or worry can be really hurtful. Apart from anything else, the pain of not being able to have a much wanted child, of feeling like someone has punched you in the stomach when you hear that a friend or colleague or relative is pregnant, of slowly coming to terms with the fact that your life is not going to include a child of your own does not make life particularly easy.

I worked with someone who said she was really tired because her daughter had woken up a few times during the night. Another colleague who didn't have children and lived with her elderly mother remarked that she'd been woken up a few times by her mother wanting a drink etc. Colleague with daughter said 'that's nothing compared to trying to amuse a 2 year old at 4 o'clock in the morning'.

I think it’s more the lack of childcare at Christmas. At work we’re open 365 days a year and everyone requests Christmas off - I tend to give it to the people who genuinely need it (single parents/other parent working/those with caring responsiblities) than the ones who want to go out and get drunk with their brothers (actual reason given)

Thanks Stickthat

EvilCleverDog

Why does it matter that they want to go out and get drunk with their brother?

Evil, I have to echo Stick's question. Why do you think you have the right to decide whose personal life is more important and worthy of time off?