To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

My DM always asks if this friend of mineor that friend of mine 'has any kiddies?' despite the fact I want to lamp her for using the word 'kiddies' she always then follows it up (if they don't) with the comment; 'Oh, too selfish to have any I suppose?'

I tend to freak right out at that. For her stupid ignorant assumptions. And given that throughout my childhood she was an abusive drugged out alcoholic who used to beat the shit out of me for any minor pretext she could find, it was hardly like she was the unselfish mother of the year she apparently considered herself to have been.

My blood pressure just went bananas even typing that.

Child -free! could be an appropriate term for some people - because as PP said you are dealing with a whole range of people.

Group 1: Really Wanted Children
Desperately wanted children: never happened due to personal infertility/medical reasons.
Desperately wanted children: never happened due to partner's infertility/medical reasons.
Desperately wanted children: never happened due to chosen life partner not wanting children.
Group 2: Neutral about it

Neutral about wanting children and would only do so if met right partner: never met right partner. For a time there was a "fashionable" term for this wasn't there - something like childless by circumstance ? Can't remember.
Neutral about wanting children: never had children because of any of the reasons in the first section but relaxed about it.

Group 3: Actively does not want children
Never wanted children at all.
Used to want them but does not now.

You are never going to get a one size fits all here because people will react differently. For example, someone in Group 3 will feel highly patronised by someone assuming they are in Group 1. Someone in Group 1 may find it such a painful sensitive subject that they can't begin to engage in a conversation touching on children at all depending on where they are in their journey.

I think the main thing to note is that it is a highly sensitive subject and you should never make any assumptions about why the person you are speaking to does not have children.

If the topic comes up, do not press it or go further unless the person in question is actively inviting you to do so.

Margaret. I like to take school holidays because it means I can go on extended family holidays with my nieces and nephews, have them to stay with me for a few nights, bring the to the cinema or pantomime and basically have a family life that encompasses children.

I like to have Christmas Day off for much the same reason. Not having children doesn't mean you are devoid of any need for a family life.

Thanks Frisbee. Will have a look at that.

Assume that the childfree are happy to do all the shit jobs/awkward shifts/remote work because 'they have no life or committments outside work'.

When we are all paid the same and on the same grade, everyone should do the same amount of work and equal share of the undesirable stuff without pulling the 'I can't work away I have a child' card.

Also assume that those without children get 8 hours of blissful uninterrupted sleep every night. Try having a bladder that gets you up for a wee at least 4 times a night and a partner that can out snore a jumbo jet before complaining about lack of sleep.

Not to start a bun fight (genuinely) but it is worth bearing in mind that for many people that do have children their normal childcare arrangements (nursery / childminder etc) are closed / unavailable over the Christmas / New Year period, and they may need the time off to cover childcare. This is especially true in single parent families. Not many people are going to volunteer to be a babysitter for someone else's kid on Christmas day sadly.

Reply to well intentioned but really annoying advice/intervention 'you don't even have children' or 'and how many children have you raised?' Or anything else to that effect. Not least of all because parents can give bad advice too.

Argh yes yes to the 'when' (when I recover from the latest loss of a child I'm still grieving for, and the previous ones thanks) and to the whole 'people who don't have children can do the evening/weekend/holiday shifts no one wants because obviously they don't have a real life ' I had a manager once who pulled that one frequently.

It does leave you feeling a failure as a woman, a second class citizen.

When I worked on a very lovely all female team, I used to find excuses to get out of going to the Christmas meal or parties because every single conversation was about kids. What to get them, where they were taking them, where they were staying, how to entertain them, how to ensure all the grandparents got time with them - very relevant and immediate issues for every mum on the team, but without kids you have no part whatever in that conversation.

To echo PP. Parents need childcare for their DC which is not normally available over Christmas/Bank holidays. That's why they should get priority in some cases.

What about single parents?

It's pretty obvious why parents need more time off than non-parents, no?

FrisbeeFreedom

Someone I know posted on Facebook about how we were screwed because so many powerful people don't have children and therefore have no vested interest in the future. Ridiculous and offensive view in my opinion!

I think that is how Andrea Leadsom came unstuck!

There is also a big issue with some people with children resenting the fact they had them (which is a big taboo subject) and so want to attack those without children to try to bring them into the pool of the unhappy - because they envy those without children. Some of the comments about "must hate children" and "too selfish to have children" definitely must come from this source. A person happy with their decision to have children wouldn't go around attacking those without unless they felt resentful.

It's an emotive subject both ways.

I worked last Christmas as DS was 6 months, this year I have it off and may well take turns. DH has always worked Christmas and now reaps that back by only doing Boxing Day or New Years. Each to their own - I never knew anyone who took the piss always having it off but I imagine they are out there

Making comments in like "God sends you as many children as you can cope with".

The Christmas thing is tricky. I have worked Xmas day pre DC and whilst it wasn’t great, I would have much preferred me being a bit miserable than a child not having one of its parents there on Xmas day. As an adult I can manage that meh feeling better than a child, obviously.
I always cringe when people ask when others are planning to have DC. Seems to be one area where people feel they have carte blanche to comment.

Celebs often come out with really tactless stuff too, that is going to reach a wide audience.
Serena Williams recently commented that having a baby meant she would be a 'real woman'.
I saw an actress quoted as saying 'before you have children your world is just black and white. Afterwards it has full colour'.

MiddleAgedMinger Not to me sorry! I especially don't understand why they would need more time off (unless unpaid of course)

To think that people without children have such little in the their lives outside of work that they should have to work Christmas every year while the same people have it off is very unfair. It should be on a rota

Somehow a childless person seems more worthy of comment when they are female.

Men can be single/childless and people don’t seem to comment as much.

But a woman without man and offspring is seen as incomplete and must be just waiting for it to happen. Or if she’s old, she must be devastated that it didn’t.

I saw an actress quoted as saying 'before you have children your world is just black and white. Afterwards it has full colour

That crap is sometimes posted on here too. Search for "technicolor".

It's so hard as I have a colleague who is lovely but keeps saying how lucky I am I don't have children.

I ended up having to say to her "oh, please don't keep saying it, I know you mean well but I'm finding it really hard at the moment."

Everyone was shocked and I realised they didn't know how painful it was for me.

MiddleagedMinger so basically people without children should put their lives outside of work on hold in order to be always available to facilitate working mothers? Are we not allowed to undertake responsibilities, activities etc to give our life meaning and joy?

I should add that I'm a nurse and have worked several Easters / Christmas days / Boxing days / New Years days. There's a balance to be struck between being considerate to parents and other colleagues. I absolutely agree that just because you don't have kids doesn't mean you don't have plans for the weekend / Christmas etc and the 'crap shifts' should be shared out fairly. This year I'm off Christmas day but will be doing Christmas eve, Boxing day and New Years eve; which I think is fair.

I don't see why workers without children should accept less favourable working conditions to accommodate other people's childcare difficulties. Fair enough if they don't mind working at Christmas but they shouldn't be forced to come behind parents every time.

I think people expecting specific time off or holidays because they have children is ridiculous and as a parent myself I find it embarrassing when people try and justify why they are more entitled to the time off because they have kids. Why does not having children mean people aren’t also allowed equal priority for the time off? Same goes for school holidays.

I say that as a parent of 2 young children myself btw. I like having time off over Christmas and when the kids are off but in no way do I expect priority for this based on the fact I have kids.

My mum used to work Christmas Day every other year or so. It made zero difference to my life and I wasn't sat crying all day. We just used to celebrate on Boxing Day instead

My sister said to me not to worry, I have her children now, I dont need my own.

I do want DC but probably not going to happen.

Her children are very badly behaved and quite frankly until she sorts their behaviour out, I dont even want to have them in my house let alone be content to consider them subsitute children of my own.

When someone has said, in conversation, that they don't have children, I make a conscious effort not ask why? why not? Its not my business .
Having seen my daughter go through successful fertility treatment and now my niece, Iv seen how insensitive and thoughtless comments can affect them.
My thoughts are with any ladies undertaking this courageous battle.