To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

'It's pretty obvious why parents need more time off than non-parents, no?'

Not to me I'm afraid. If you make the choice to have a child you factor in this kind of thing, because it's going to happen.

Because I was lumbered with a dysfunctional reproductive kit, I am not going to always miss out on a family Christmas and see that as my punishment due as it's so hard for all the lucky bastards who are raising children. I've done plenty as a good will gesture, but I'm not doing them all and it's good will, which goes the second it becomes expectation.

It's also massively assuming that unless I've reproduced, I can have no other serious responsibilities or commitments that really matter.

I never ask people when or if they are having kids.

For all I know they’ve been trying for years / have just had a miscarriage.

Christmas is hard though. I know Christmas is really important to my mum. But she would be way more understanding than my 4 & 6 year old if I wasn’t there for Christmas.

That we're selfish.

That they need or deserve time off work in the summer/at Christmas/when-fucking- ever more than I do.

"You can just adopt"

"You can adopt, but it's not the same".

I can't work out which one of those is worse!

"Do you have children? Ohh, very wise decision, they're a nightmare!"

"Do you have children? Do you want to have children? Did you want to have children? What happened to mean that you couldn't? Did you try vitamin D, it worked wonders for my friend. Maybe you just needed to relax more". (From someone I'd only just met).

I'm a nurse and I always used to volunteer to work so nurses with children didn't have too. Christmas Day shifts are only 6 hours long anyway so I still got to see my family on the day so it wasn't a big deal to me.

When my DS was 10 months old I still put down to work Christmas so mothers of older children could have the day off.

The majority of the nurses who work Christmas Day, especially on the early shift will not have children and day they don't mind working it as they don't have children and we do genuinely mean it.

I can understand though why it would bother other people.

Not having children doesn't mean you are devoid of any need for a family life.

Exactly this.

Ad even if you don't want to spend time with other family - you still have a right to go away, spend time vegging in front of the telly, or string over beans on toast muttering "Bah, Humbug" to yourself.

Christmas is NOT for children alone. Like it or not, there is a religious meaning to this festival, and everyone who is at least nominally Christian has as much right to celebrate or not as they wish. Some people (not necessarily childless) don't mind working Christmas shifts - that's fine if they offer to cover for others, but there should never be a presumption that they have to.

As another poster has said, it's the 'assumption' that builds up around Christmas. Someone tries to be nice and works a couple of Christmases,, then announces that they'd like this Christmas off to spend time with their elderly mum/nieces and nephews/sister who's home from Australia. and some working mothers start throwing strops because they've just started to assume that Christmas is 'their's' and no one has a right to change this.

As a line manager for 15 years, I have to navigate this every year. I have not changed my approach since I had one of my own. I struggled ttc for 5 yrs before IVF.

I always ask for volunteers against the whole christmas and new year period. Then give priority to those who have requested the fewest days. Ie person 1 wants 2 days off incl xmas eve and person 2 wants 2 weeks off, I give person 1 everything they ask for and start asking person 2 to compromise until agreement is made. I’ve only had to ‘tell’ someone their days once when compromise was refused. I’m always open about how I decide as well, to encourage compromise from the start. I get it sorted by end of Sept every year as well so I’m not held to ransoms by someone booking flights/train tickets.

This said, since having one of my own, I totally get why xmas eve and the build up is so special. At this young age, I’m happy to compromise and work new year.

I'm a nurse and I always used to volunteer to work so nurses with children didn't have too. Christmas Day shifts are only 6 hours long anyway so I still got to see my family on the day so it wasn't a big deal to me

That’s so nice.

I’ve never worked in an industry that works Xmas day.
Pre kids I would always take my hols in none term time weeks. I could see how important it was for the parents and worked with. And it didn’t really put me out.

Obviously no excuse for rudeness and tactlessness. But agree people with under 10s should have priority over Christmas. I definitely felt that before I had kids.

I was told I was selfish to not have children. One of the reasons given was that children are needed to pay taxes in the future to pay old people their pensions. I'd lost 2 babies and was going through fertility treatment. I nearly decked the judgemental bitch.

My DM told me last year “Christmas is for children only”
So DH and I were wrong for celebrating it clearly!

We are awaiting fertility treatment but I’m told constantly “oh you can just have IVF, it will be fine” As if ivf is just a pill and poof! =instant baby.

That’s so nice.

I always used to think to myself that at least I got to home after 6 hours which is more than be said for the poor patients who have to spend their entire Christmas in hospital unwell and apart from their families. Giving up 6 hours of my own Christmas Day to enable another family which children to be together isn't a hardship in comparison to that.

I've pretty much come to terms with our childlessness but I live in terror of being invited to a baby shower.

So what are you saying Queen. That people without children who don't offer to work every Christmas are selfish?

Things like "You'll get your turn when you have kids". That's all fine if you're lucky enough to become pregnant but what if you're struggling and have had years of failed IVF and that turn never happens.

Atm I'm childless and can't see myself having any as there is infertility on my side of the family.

I'm so lucky that my own workplace closes completely over Christmas but a family member once told me that a childless colleague in a demanding job at a residential school had to wait until June to get time off as she had a 52 week contract and had to cover Christmas and Easter as she had no children and her family lived abroad. Also her line manager refused her time off in term time as the team was short staffed but allowed someone who had a term time contract 3 weeks off in term time to go to South Africa because she wanted to.

Slightly more specific than the OP but here are some things NOT to say to people who don't have children but wish they did:

• You're too stressed out, maybe you should relax more
• Just do what I did and go on a nice holiday/get drunk
• It will happen when you least expect it
• Loads of people get pregnant after they adopt, like Charlotte on Sex and the City - why don't you just do that?
• My friend's sister's dentist's receptionist tried for 8 years and then gave up and went on a road trip to nicuaragua and then got pregnant with quads!
• Maybe you're just not meant to be a mother
• I never really understood what real love was until I had children

The trouble is, the majority of these are well meant, and people are just trying to be helpful. People want to 'fix' things, and are largely uncomfortable with say 'that's really shit and unfair, I'm so sorry' For the most part, all you want to hear is 'I'm here for you'. I'm well aware that lots of people DO have miracle pregnancies years after they stop trying, but these always the lovely positive stories people talk about so it gives the impression that it ALWAYS happens, But it doesn't. No one tells the stories about their friends who tried for years but it never happened for them, but they are still happy and now have a fulfilling life together.

After six years ttc, watching everyone around you have children and ending up the awkward childless couple putting on a brave face at birthday parties and christenings, you don't want to hear about other people's success stories any more. It starts making you feel like you are fundamentally doing something wrong if it doesn't happen to you.

Anyway, apologies I've gone massively off tangent but if this post makes anyone thing twice about how they talk to their childless/childfree friends then it will have done it's job.

DownbutnotfullyOut has it perfectly I think:

If the topic comes up, do not press it or go further unless the person in question is actively inviting you to do so

Asking someone about their plans regarding children is basically asking for very personal and potentially medical information. Why would you do that? If someone obviously encourages you to discuss it with them that's one thing, but otherwise, just leave it alone.

Urgh, atrocious spelling / grammar errors there

'But if this post makes anyone think twice about how they talk to their childless/childfree friends then it will have done it's job'

Thanks Angelica. That was really my intention in starting this thread. Allowing some posters with children to understand how remarks that, to them may seem innocuous or helpful, can often be terribly upsetting to those without children.

But it seems to have turned into a debate about who deserves Christmas off.

It's because the child wants their mum there at Christmas and the staff member doesn't want them to be sad on Christmas Day.

And that gives the parent priority for time off over Christmas exactly why?

I do have children but I suppose any kind of comment along the lines “you’re so lucky you don’t have to worry about this” (re school/childcare etc) is a bit crass.

Don't ask why they don't have children, or if they would have liked children. That's really intrusive.

Before I had children it wasn't a 'thing' - You had children or you didn't. Why does everyone need to label things nowadays? I normally don't ask whether others have children or not unlessthey volunteer the information. The only time I have asked if a woman had children was during my last labour when I asked for pain relief and the female midwife queried if I really needed it.

What gets me is the assumption that people without children will automatically go to the back of the queue when it comes to time-off over Christmas.