To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

Do not say to a woman (me) aged 41 how awful it would be to have a baby / young child in your 40s.

After being ill I'm most of my 30s my only hope of a baby is early 40s.

Could not believe the woman saying it , she knows I'm desperate for a child.
I pointed out that I'm thinner & physically fitter now than when I was younger which finally shut her up.

• Suggesting that when they are less stressed about getting pregnant that it might happen for them
• Asking them what is taking so long
• Telling them they can always adopt
• Moaning about how much hard work kids are

whiskyowl

Yep! Some people really are scraping the barrel in the kindness department. I'm sorry you had those responses, younare entilitled to be upset and look to others for support

If I worked for you EvilCleverDog I’d be having a word with the union about your discriminatory practices.

'Some people are hideous.'

Yep

Skarossinkplunger as would I

So @evilcleverdog do you check whether these single parents have parents/siblings locally? How many of your employees spend Christmas just them as the only adult and their children?

Would a single parent get priority over, for example, an employee who was only child whose parent was ill and it would be their last Christmas?

I just don’t think it is any employer’s position to judge the validity of someone’s life away from work and who “deserves” Christmas off.

Fwiw I’m not heartless. I have 3 dc so don’t know first hand the pain of infertility but my sister can’t physically have children and has been refused NHS help as her dh has a daughter (17) from a previous marriage. It affects her whole life and my heart breaks for her.

My dad was told he couldn't have any time off over Christmas (worked in retail and shop was only shut Christmas/Boxing day) as his child was older. It was my dads first year with without my mum therefore he wanted a couple of days off to spend time with me when I was back from university aged 18.

Thanks stick and lotta. Actually, the Mumsnet response to the original story was brilliant and helpful and supportive. I think there is honestly something actually wrong with some of the people who post nasty below-the-line comments. But I thought they indicated the deprioritisation of the woman's feelings quite nicely. How dare I be upset? So selfish!

I don’t think you’re heartless at all @evilcleverdog I’m just genuinely interested

I had a friend "break the news" of our mutual friend's pregnancy before the mutual friend got a chance, because "I know how hard this will be for you, but you need to know."

I wasn't even TTC at the time (she just assumed) and I was of course delighted for our mutual friend.

When I told another friend about the ridiculousness of the first friend, she nodded sagely and told me to relax and it would happen. I told her it wouldn't happen when I wasn't TTC. She nodded in obvious disbelief.

"People want to 'fix' things, and are largely uncomfortable with say 'that's really shit and unfair, I'm so sorry' For the most part, all you want to hear is 'I'm here for you'. I'm well aware that lots of people DO have miracle pregnancies years after they stop trying, but these always the lovely positive stories people talk about so it gives the impression that it ALWAYS happens, But it doesn't. No one tells the stories about their friends who tried for years but it never happened for them, but they are still happy and now have a fulfilling life together."

[AngelicaSchuyler Tue 24-Oct-17 12:18:28]

All very true.

And it is hard to know what to say when someone tells you about something bad in their life, but it becomes a lot easier if you think it through in advance, so that next time someone does, you'll be ready.

Instead of leaping in with an attempt to make what they've told you not as bad, give yourself a moment to take in what they've said, and say something like "Oh, that's horrible, I'm so sorry".

It feels very inadequate, but it's so much better than invalidating people's pain. Or even "just" invalidating people's perspective on their own experiences. Which is not good either.

I also think some people can get a bit wound up and panicky feeling like they're being told because the person is seeking support from them, and they don't know how to give it. Ime, most of the time, people tell you about bad things that have happened, or are happening, in their lives, because you need to know for the purposes of a discussion or practical arrangements, and they're just keeping you informed.

Avon, honestly would you think that wanting to have Xmas off “to get drunk with your brothers” absolutely must be treated the same as a request from someone with DC?

Yes, I do too. What if it came down to two people with children of, say, different ages and both argued that they needed it more? Does the boss decide by dint of the child's age?

Or how about if it's between someone with a child and someone with an elderly/ill family member? Or, what about if the brother of the person cited by Evil was terminally ill and might have no more Christmases? Once you get into emotional/moral distinctions you're on a very slippery slope.

Evil, your company needs to get a grip on its staff and/or shift policy if you constantly have to deal with people calling in sick under false pretences, or bringing their children to work.

I should add that the first friend delivered the news with a look and tone dripping with pity.

We are no longer friends.

EvilCleverDog but you don't seem to realise that what you are doing is discrimination and if a colleague decided to take action against you they would be in the right.

It is incredibly sad for your sister, maybe you can see that if she was told she couldn't have christmad day off every year becuase she didn't have children it would be incredibly unfair. Especially at the time of year when having children is so shoved in your face anyway

I’m going to bow out now but just to pick up on Mctufty’s point - it can’t be fair on the one hand that people shouldn’t have to give a reason why they want time off but on the other hand every detail of possible childcare options for a single parent must be looked at.
Anyway a lot of the comments people without children have had to endure are awful. Whether they’re meant kindly or not, people need to think on. The church barren comment is horrendous

It’s not about deserving Christmas off. It’s about needing the day when there’s no alternative. I actually have a great working relationship with my staff and HR and as I pointed out after trying various things this has been the best solution for our company - not claiming it will work in all situations.
Of course I get a few moans but there are a few perks - double pay, NYE off and like I said they would most likely get priority if they were to request a summer week/fortnight the same time as someone who didn’t work Christmas.
It’s not something I have took on lightly but needs must.

I think there should be a priority for people with children not to work Christmas day but obviously it shouldn't fall in the same person to work it every year. I worked Christmas before I had kids and was happy to so that people with children could be at home.

My mum used to work Christmas when I was young and to be honest it used to ruin Christmas as I was left with my scrooge of a father.

I have worked with people in the past that believe that they have a divine right to the popular holidays due to having had the fortune to have children. They were often extremely demanding in other ways too.
I no longer work with them, not because I've moved on either.
When it comes to cost cutting its easy to see where the cuts are to be made.

'Barren' is a vile term and it still stings hard over twenty years later. When I finally did manage to produce the goods someone else (the mother of said smug woman,unsurprisingly) thought it was fine to send me a congratulation card with a biblical reference to the 'barren woman rejoicing'. Haven't been to church for years now.

Firstly re Xmas: on our ward we work alternate Xmas days, children or no, that's the fairest way.

Secondly I HATE ppl who say 'just adopt' - well I have Psychosis I don't think I'll be allowed to!!
But I can't actually admit that.

I have a perinatal psychiatrist appointment in a few weeks to see if I can have a child on my meds.. or if 'they' will allow me to.
I may feel suicidal if the answer is no.
How will life be? I don't know.

Margaret if Christmas leave is assigned on a fair basis, then parents will have twelve months notice that they need to find childcare for 25th December. If someone is in the unusual situation of having no partner, parent, sibling or friend willing to mind their child for a few hours then they will usually not have a problem finding a colleague to swap shifts. But those circumstances are rare and do not justify a policy of allowing parents first option for leave at Christmas every year.

And your implication that those without children who request fairness in the way leave is allocated are 'not sympathetic and supportive to colleagues' is pretty cheap.

Is it? You know that? For EVERYONE in the whole world?

@RhiannonOHara of course I can't speak for everyone in the whole world. But if you have no problem disappointing your child on Christmas Day then you wouldn't be a great parent. There's a reason why pretty much every parent priorities their child's wants and needs before other family members. Because you are solely responsible for their happiness.

@avoncallingbarksdale

My point about single parents having parents/siblings etc is that just because you’re a single parent it doesn’t mean you don’t have childcare and therefore NEED Christmas off.