to find it sad that women talk about their DH’a achievements like they are their own

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

On all these “how much do you earn” threads I find it sad to see so many women who gave up careers of a lot of money to be a SAHM and talk proudly about their DH’s income as if it’s their achievement. I wonder why it’s always the woman who cares for the children and how so many woman can decide to give up work leaving them in such a vulnerable position if the husband leaves them.

I used to think this way OP.

Then I tried it. Two demanding careers, excellent nanny. All fine no?

No.

There is only so much a nanny can and will do. They don't do night wakings (it's hard to keep up a career on little sleep). They don't do more than 10-11 hours a day - most demanding careers require more than this (esp once you include commute). They don't find and book family holidays, organise christmas, sort a plumber, go to parents evening. Then there are things they could in theory do but the DC would not be happy - eg do all bedtimes, go to nativity play, chat about friendship issues. And then if your DC have SN it is very hard to find a nanny who can do the same as a parent.

Your idea that you can replace a SAHP with a nanny is completely misguided. Have you tried it yourself?

@JustHereForThePooStories

I also think the vast, vast majority of men wouldn't get married.

It must really depend on what you do too. I'd never become a SAHM as I love my job, worked so hard to get here, it's fulfilling and helps others, and pays well. that's a lot to give up. If I were working 20 hours in Tesco per week for peanuts and hated it then on balance it might make more sense to give that up especially as it pays so little childcare would probably cost more. I'd like to think I'd retain some independence and keep working even then though.

"Raising children is an achievement I agree, but basing your entire life on it is just achieving one thing imo, rather than being able to achieve more like most SAHM’s higher earning spouse."

I think a lot of the alcoholism and drug use, in certain higher earner groups, is because a person can get caught up with this idea of having to achieve all the time.

We create our own value system, upon having a baby, that gets a rethink, for some.

My opinion is that we don't have a skills or workforce shortage, so it's a perfectly valid choice to come out of work to care for your own children.

I say care for your own children, because Nannies, Childminders, Nursery Staff, Teachers don't get the same flack for their choice. Likewise full time Foster Carers and Housekeepers/cleaners.

How we value, or rather how we don't value unpaid, 'traditional' female roles is a bigger feminist issue than Working Mothers.

There is a lot to be said for knowing what you want at that time and having the courage of your convictions to live by your value system, it's what brings us happiness, real happiness that is.

The idea that anyone can successfully raise a child is ridiculous. The majority of posters on here are from working, but dysfunctional families, who have had their MH fucked up by their Parents actions/behaviour.

Teach your daughters to critically think, teach the concept that we all have different wants/needs/values and the right to choose our path, rebel against the Social Structures that prevent Women from equality, that's what will makes Society work. Not everyone following the same path.

I don’t understand these threads. They come up time after time. Vitriol aimed at a group of people who made a different choice yet it doesn’t affect the OP at all.

The SAHM WOHM bitchfest helps no one. It does not increase our choices or inform people. It just forces people into a corner where they feel attacked and defensive. You don’t care OP. You just dislike them. And this thread is getting particularly unpleasant. The comments that SAHM are lazy and morons. Horrible. And now the digs from SAHM that they are better mothers. And I don’t blame them for making these digs. You have been vile and joined by other SAHM haters.

And all the time you are trying to pretend you care for their future and lack of career. But really you want to spit bile at them.

How does this help anyone? Why are women attacking other women for making a different choice in childcare? What the hell is your problem OP? Why the hate?

I think it's wonderful to be proud of your partner's achievements and to acknowledge your part in them by supporting them, you don't have to be a SAHP for that. My husband started a successful business and has essentially tripled our household income in the 4 years since we had our daughter (I was at home for 1 year of that, otherwise working part or full time, though that was nothing to do with him, just the nature of available jobs in my field and balancing the cost of childcare). I'm proud of that, and as it's a family business, I also am part of that (not officially, I don't get paid, but I help him when needed and we work events together when it's busy). So technically I did contribute to that achievement and I'm very proud of him for working so hard at that and following his dreams (he was in a career he hated before this). It's also provided us with a different level of financial security. But I've not been sitting around on my laurels. In that time, I also got a PhD and have a successful career of my own, am a published author, etc. He is equally proud of my achievements and talks to people about them. His work around the house and with childcare has definitely made that possible. Though he wouldn't say it's 'his' achievement because he's never come to work with me, whereas I'm more likely say 'we' when I talk about his work, because legitimately, I do some work for the business too. But I would say we are both equally proud of the others achievements and we equally take credit to an extent for the others' success. If I was a SAHP, which I'm not, I would certainly take credit for his success though as my work around the house would have made that possible. He wouldn't be able to work weekends or long hours if not for me. And I certainly keep things ticking over when life is hectic (cooking meals for him when he won't be home til 10pm finishing a project, etc.). Though equally, he does the same when I need to travel and won't get home from a meeting until late. If you're a partnership, you're both responsible for keeping the household going, so I don't think it's weird to be proud of someone's achievements or to feel you've contributed to them. I think maybe it's weird to say they are 'yours' as they aren't really, but you've made them possible, if that makes sense, and that's still an achievement.

But I think it's an awful assumption to assume that someone who is a SAHP feels like they aren't fulfilling their potential. If that's the case, that's a shame and that person probably needs to find something to do with their life. Personally, no if I was a full time SAHP the all of my children's lives (I have been at home when mine were younger but then returned to my profession), I would feel miserable and unfulfilled. But that's me. That's because I love what I do and I get restless and bored at home. But that doesn't mean everyone feels like that. So if that's what they love and what gives them passion, great, they should do that if they can afford it. I suspect they get a lot of fulfillment from that, even if it's not for me (or you, op).

Teach your daughters to critically think, teach the concept that we all have different wants/needs/values and the right to choose our path, rebel against the Social Structures that prevent Women from equality, that's what will makes Society work. Not everyone following the same path.

This! Spot on.

You'd hate me op - I'm a sahm with a high earning DH and I put my toddler in to nursery two mornings per week just so that I can sleep.

I achieved everything I wanted to in my career before I had my DD when I was 36 so I had no real reason to go back if I didn't want to. Which I didn't.

I can't get worked up about how other people live their lives or raise their children or the decisions people make about what does or doesn't work for them.

You know, not everyone thinks simply working for a living is the only thing they can possibly achieve in life either. I don't know what you do (you won't answer that question - someone did ask you) but I don't particularly like working my backside off to make money for a load of shareholders I never met. I'm bloody good at my job though and work hard for me and my clients.

However, I've just started a year of maternity leave and honestly we are hoping that I only need to do part time hours when the year is up. It's something we have discussed as a married couple - I would like the best of both worlds and for us to be able to spend time together as a family each weekend rather than us worrying about running the house. That is a choice we would both be happy with and I care not one dot if you think I could be 'achieving more'

You say it’s a lazy choice but then you feel sorry for them which is it? My SM is a ‘SAHM’ to a 15 year old while my dad works 11 hour days, I certainly don’t feel sorry for her. I also know a SAHM who does organised activities with her two preschoolers every single day. I’d rather stick pins in my eyes. You can’t compare all SAHMs.

Plus a huge amount of women who stay home do it because they can’t afford childcare. Obviously that doesn’t apply to high earners but then most people aren’t high earners (contrary to what MN would have you believe).

I see where you're coming from OP

@Curiositykilledthecat113
You haven’t asked anything. You have just lit the touch paper and watched the results. You are blatant in your contempt. This isn’t a thread to learn about other choices. You don’t care about their financial future. You just wanted a thread to slate SAHM.

So, I could get someone in to provide childcare and I could get a job. Hey! I could be a nanny. Or work in a nursery. Or be a childminder.

Do you see that for some it makes more sense to provide their own childcare rather than pay someone else?

However I do think that barring exceptional circumstances it is good to go back to work once your children are more independent, say when they start secondary maybe.

OP I ran an after school club for Year 7-9 at ds's school for years; I volunteered at the school, taught English to the non English mums etc, etc. Contributing to society doesn't have to be financial....it can be providing a space for like minded people to get together, I am taking over an English conversation group again, I help out at a large charity bazaar etc.

When I move back to the UK, I might go back to work, but I have pensions that kick in at 60, (so in just over 8 years), which allied to Dh's pension, as he will retire when we get back to UK, means we will be comfortable. I would be looking to earn under the tax free allowance over the NI limit to ensure I have the number of years needed to maximise my state pension. Arguably, at approaching 54 when we go back, I should not bother job hunting, as those coming fresh out of college also need jobs. I might see if it is possible to become a magistrate.

It's very easy to sit there and sneer at the choices people make if you are not in their particular set of circumstances. There are other things in life than having a job and climbing the greasy pole. If that's your choice, then fine, but it isn't mine.

SAHMs are judged so negatively on here it's really sad. Berated for wanting to be the one who raises your children, totally bizarre. If you have a fabulous career and want to continue it I totally understand. If finances dictate that you have to work then I get that too. But if your husband earns enough to allow you to look after the children at home then why the hell isnt that allowed on here? It's so rude.

Ha, OP I think you might have a few issues to work through! You're very insecure about your choices if you need to put others down.

I'm a SAHP through choice and bloody love my life, it is fun and fulfilling and as a family it works for us. I had a high powered career before children so I know exactly what I gave up and don't have any regrets.

Your fake sympathy is hilarious 😂 You clearly just judge SAHP. I don't judge choices other people make because they don't affect me, maybe you should ask why they affect you??

SecondHandSnake And do you think we should encourage this problem by continuing to have women out of the workforce or encourage women to work and be parents at the same time?
I disagree that men couldn’t improve their careers without their stay at home wife, they could hire a nanny.

I think you need to zoom out and look at the wider issues.

It's not as simple as saying women should stay in work when they have kids.

More often than not, childcare costs eat all of the woman's salary. I just do not buy the argument that women should work essentially for nothing, or in some cases even at a deficit, just to 'keep their hand in'. Seriously? That's the best we can hope for? Working full time to earn enough to pay someone to look after our children and still doing the lion's share of heavy lifting on the housework front?

That's not having it all. That's doing it all. And getting nowhere.

The fact is, until women are paid more, and until there genuinely flexible working practices (for ALL - men, women, carers, parents, pet owners) put into place by employers, and until childcare stops being so ludicrously expensive, we are going to have this same circular conversation over and over again. Right now the system is stacked in favour of the higher earner and that's almost always the man.

Yes, a man could employ a nanny to look after his children if he were a high earning single parent. But to replicate having a SAHM, he'd also have to hire a housekeeper. So he'd be looking at spending around £50-60k per year on their salaries.

SAHMs do both jobs for free for the benefit of the family pot. WHICH IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE ARGUMENT OF THE VALUE OF SAHMs!!!!

PS. Not that it makes my point any more valid but DH and I both work and are both quite high earners. But I have also been a SAHM at points and so I totally know how much a SAHM contributes. And yes, I also consider that during my SAHM period when DH got a massive promotion, I helped to facilitate that.

'It becomes less of a feminist issue then (financial independence, career, etc) and more of just a basic question of: so basically having a vagina and marrying well relieves you of a lifetime down the pit.'

Yes.
I actually think it's OK not to want to work, and it's OK to want to take advantage of a lucky situation that means you don't have to - we don't condemn lottery winners for retiring, after all (though we do love the whole 'I'll go to work on Monday just the same' narrative) -, but what's not OK is dressing it up as a noble sacrifice that makes one a better mother than the money-mad career woman next door. And presumably, by that logic, a better parent than the working-all-hours dad. Although that appears to be different because men are supposed to be out there grafting and providing

There is no doubt in either of our minds that DH's ability to work late, leave the country at short notice, entertain clients at no notice, always go to work regardless of sick children, sports days, nativities, INSET, school holidays, etc, meant that he was the guy who got the chances, was able to shine, and climbed briskly up the career ladder. Thus our family was better off financially and less stressed than it would have been if I'd kept working

Tbh it sounds like your family would have been a hell of a lot stressed if your husband had a different job entirely. His life reads as work first, family second.

SAHMs are judged so negatively on here it's really sad. Berated for wanting to be the one who raises your children, totally bizarre.

Perhaps it's comments like this that invite the negative judgement. Parents who work are still raising their children, FFS.

I agree with you OP. If my partner earned a lot I wouldn't act as if it was my achievement. Of course I'd be happy for him and proud of him for working so hard but I have my own objectives and ambitions in life that I work towards.

It does make me a bit sad that many women think they can only play a supporting role by staying at home and looking after kids so their husbands can go and succeed in their careers. Children grow up and leave you, and then the lack of fulfilment in life may become more apparent.

This isn't the norm though is it.

Lots of people are proud of their other halves! That's a nice thing.

"How we value, or rather how we don't value unpaid, 'traditional' female roles is a bigger feminist issue than Working Mothers."

This.

I don't know why earning lots of money and having fast paced careers with long hours etc as seen as the mark of 'success' and highest achievement.

YABU