to find it sad that women talk about their DH’a achievements like they are their own

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

On all these “how much do you earn” threads I find it sad to see so many women who gave up careers of a lot of money to be a SAHM and talk proudly about their DH’s income as if it’s their achievement. I wonder why it’s always the woman who cares for the children and how so many woman can decide to give up work leaving them in such a vulnerable position if the husband leaves them.

I'm a SAHP, please keep your pity for my situation to yourself. I neither need nor want your judgemental opinions on what is considered a valuable "achievement" in life.

"knowing that other parents do that and achieve much more every day" maybe if you stopped comparing yourself with other people and contemplated your own life, your own choices and whether you were happy with those, then your would also stop judging other people for their choices.

Money and jobs are not the only standards by which to judge a person's life, those are not the only achievements that are worthwhile. You dismiss and insult many people, not just SAHPs with your narrow attitude.

Do you not feel like you could be achieving more than you are?

OP I was about to agree with you until I saw this little nugget. I hadn't realised that it was just a bitchy thread about SAHPs until that point.

And no, I'm not a SAHP, but I do not and will not judge other people's choices. Some people have no choice (I didn't), some do. That's life.

My mum was a SAHM and my dad was successful in his field. His success was not down to her and his work achievements are not hers to celebrate. She did a fantastic job raising us, their children, she doesn't need to take pretend credit for his career as well.

WhataHexIgotinto It’s not a dig, apologise if you see it that way. It’s a genuine confusion on my part because for myself, I would feel underachieving. I’m not saying others have to.

So really the crux of this post is you are contemptuous of SAHM and think they are lazy. You tried to dress it up in faux sadness and worry that they will feel unfulfilled but you couldn’t maintain that for long, could you @Curiositykilledthecat113

This is the quote that gets to the heart of the matter:
MagentaRocks It feels lazy to me, single parents (I am not one before people pull the jealousy or spite card) have to work and have kids, they don’t just get to decide they don’t want a career. It doesn’t work like that for most.

Urgh I hate this shit. Wider than the SAHP/WOHP debate which is that society doesn't seem to value any contribution which isn't pushing yourself to the maximum of your financial/career options and even then you might be found wanting.
It's this kind of attitude which drives the cycle of anxiety, stress and consumerism which makes so many people unhappy.
Some SAHP might be making themselves financially vulnerable if they split but just by having children I've made myself financially vulnerable. My husband and I both work but if we were to split we'd have a very difficult time making ends meet due to child related costs.
As long as your choices don't negatively affect society as a whole, (and I'm not aiming that comment at benefits) then surely we should do what makes sense for us and our families? And stop judging each other's choices.

How many posts do we see on MN where women are panicking about trying to get back into the workforce after taking time off as SAHMs, though? Or women in difficult financial situations because of divorce, second wives who are frustrated that the ex doesn’t work when they’re struggling. It’s such a risky prospect and I think it’s really reckless.

@HeteronormativeHaybales

Yes, the whiff of "I'm such a caring, devoted mother I couldn't possibly work whilst lavishing attention on my little ones".

I think SAHMs often feel a bit defensive or guilty and thats because what often emerges is when it comes down to it, sure it may make sense and work out for tje best practically etc, but as one pp said, they just "dont want to" work.

It becomes less of a feminist issue then (financial independence, career, etc) and more of just a basic question of: so basically having a vagina and marrying well relieves you of a lifetime down the pit. It seems kind of lazy, and there's actually something even more mercenary about THAT option. In a way, it's saying "I'll use my vagina (to have sex, to give birth) in exchange for money and property", whereas paid work (unless you're in the sex industry) has none of these connotations.

lemon the question wasn't about household income or expenditure. It was what do you do and what do you earn.

Yescuriosity there are of course loads of jobs out there that are fine with you leaving work whenever a child is unwell, not being there over the summer holidays, all the holidays between etc .
Many sahp contribute to society by doing volunteer work and without these people what would happen to charity shops, food banks etc that rely on these people. Just coz someone isn't earning an income doesn't mean they aren't contributing. I'm wasting my time though as you clearly think sahms should be pitied and are 'wasting their lives'. Oh how blind I've been enjoying my life

So the only people who contribute to society are wage earners. Guess we'd better get rid of all the under 16s and over 65s then! SCROUNGERS, THE LOT OF THEM.

YABU it just gives more context if nothing else, so one woman earning nothing will have a totally different lifestyle compared to another earning nothing because of what their partners earn. It just gives a bit more of a picture. Also many women who were earning more than their partners also declared their partner's earnings, to show total income. I didn't see it as women taking some credit for their partner's earnings be they more or less.

Actually yoyoyoyoyo I asked because I’m willing to be proven wrong, some posters have made valid points such as they are actually secure because of savings and owning the household etc etc but others have not.

There seems to be an assumption that everyone has a high flying well paying career that they find fulfilling, and challenging, and that defines them as a person.

A lot of people don't have that. I didn't have that. I wanted to have that, and I busted a gut in my twenties to try to achieve that. But I still didn't have it. And I was utterly, utterly miserable. And it was judgemental twats who judged people's abilities and intelligence and work ethic on their salary who made me feel like that. It was a huge relief to be able to be a sahm for a few years and do something that actually brought a little shred of joy into my life after many many years of hating every waking minute of my life because I was such a failure.

And then judgemental twats come along and inform me that even those short few years when I did something that made me feel in some way happy make me even more of a failure...

I'm back at work now, and in a far better job than I ever had pre children. If I had achieved my desires of having an interesting and well paid career before I had children I'd probably be baffled as to why anyone would actively choose to be a sahm too, because I would have had something else to live for. But I didn't.

Partners'

"if your partner is earning such a high wage that you can afford not to work, why wouldn’t you hire someone to care for your kids so that you can still be achieving in your career until your child is at school?"

Because they don't want to? Maybe they feel happy and fulfilled being at home with their children and don't feel the need to 'achieve in the career' in order to make them feel like they're 'successful'?

Not anyone can do it well though. There is some skill, and wisdom and hard work involved - just as with any job.

The difference is, I don’t think I’m any better than anyone because I’m a SAHM. It works for our family and our children. It doesn’t make me a martyr or even a spectacular human being. I am nowhere near arrogant enough to assume that just because someone chooses to do things differently to me that they’re wrong or worth less. That’s the inherent issue here, whether it comes from SAHM or WOHM, it’s the frankly breathtaking arrogance of assuming that your choices are the only valid ones and that you’re somehow better.
I’ve seen it on both sides of the debate, and it’s ridiculous.

carl I actually thought the initial post was age and what do you earn? Wasn't asking about what jobs you do initially.

But obviously people will interpret that how they like. Clearly it paints a different picture if your £25k is supporting three kids and your SAHP spouse than if your £25k is basically pocket money as spouse is on £200k. I think for a lot of people in long term relationships the line between mine and ours becomes so blurred it's natural to count the family earnings as a whole.

My ex dh runs a small business which involves employing someone to work nights. The night worker quit one day and my dh had to do the night shift with the help of another employee.

I worked for him too during the day when the kids were at school.

During that period whilst he was finding someone else to cover the night shift (which wasn’t easy) it was shit yet everyone felt sorry for my ex dh despite me being the one picking up all the pieces.

For months my life went like this - get up, dressed etc, get the kids up (one was pre-school age, one was infant school age) dressed, fed, out the door to school for 8.45am. Sit in traffic to go to work at dh’s business, put up with the daily challenges there, leave at 2.45pm to go and collect the kids from school, pick them up, have the challenges of kids after school where they are tired/hungry/whining, make dinner, sort lunch boxes, spend time with the dc, do bath times, bed times etc. In between all this do the washing/supermarket shopping/cleaning etc. It was hell for months and exhausting.

My ex dh’s life was like this during those months - go to work at 11pm/midnight, do the night shift with the help of another employee, come home about 9am, go to bed all day, get up, have a meal, go back to his business just to check on the days progress etc, come home, watch tv and relax for a few hours then go to work.

Yes it was utterly shit for a while but he was going to work, getting his sleep in the day, having his meals cooked for him, not having to worry about housework, shopping etc and the dc were completely taken of so he didn’t have to worry.

Yet everyone was saying poor dh being stuck in this terrible routine whilst he found another employee

Agree with yoyo. You think SAHM are somehow less than everyone else and they should be unfulfilled. I don’t see how you can’t understand people have different views. I don’t see how someone being able to financially stay at home is your business. Why should someone work if they don’t have to? When my dh retires I don’t intend to work full time. He is 10 years older than me so if I go part time of give up work we will be living on his pensions which are fairly substantial. I won’t feel bad for contributing less. We will use that time to do things together, go on holiday, have days out etc as there has been little of that while working.

And I won’t feel less of a person because it is his income paying for our lifestyle. My money is the reason we have equity and will have paid the mortgage off early.

My dm was a sahm and, when dh and I were planning our family, we decided it may work best for us too, for many reasons. If it hadn't of course, I would have gone back to work.

I knew it was very unlikely that, on my deathbed, I'd wish I'd spent more time at the office. I have a full and rounded life, just not working for the man.

YANBU with your original post Op

OP being a high earner does not equate to having achieved more with your life.

For instance, I would argue that somebody with a true vocation - e.g. an outstanding teacher or social worker who changes children's lives, has actually "achieved" more in their life than someone who makes millions in finance / business. I know my DH would say exactly the same thing.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to find their vocation. Most if us work as a means to an end. I have a post-great degree - I enjoyed my work and was earning over 50k, but I never defined myself by it. So with that in mind, giving it up was no great loss to my self-esteem or sense of achievement.

My DH would be the first to say that bringing up 4 DC, day in day out, is more of an achievement in life than most other things.

As for your question, "Why not just get a nanny?", I think it's sad that you see parenting as so functional and humdrum that you might as well just get anyone in to do it.

A misconception that a lot of people seem to have about very high-achieving men is that they'd never have been able to do it without a wife at home.

Not true. Without a wife to raise kids, I'd imaging we'd see much more men choose to remain childless in favour of continuing to progress in their careers.

I think a lot of SAHM kid themselves to the contrary.