to find it sad that women talk about their DH’a achievements like they are their own

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

On all these “how much do you earn” threads I find it sad to see so many women who gave up careers of a lot of money to be a SAHM and talk proudly about their DH’s income as if it’s their achievement. I wonder why it’s always the woman who cares for the children and how so many woman can decide to give up work leaving them in such a vulnerable position if the husband leaves them.

Lipstick, because I misread your post as saying that the tasks themselves are not indispensable, which they are. Sorry.

Not sure about that Lipstick. I said only last week to DH, "how much do you think we are worth?". Precisely because it is our money even though DH's work related income is his and mine is mine. It get's more opaque in the context of investment gains and income.

We don't have a joint account either.

@Bluntness acknowledges it professionally. He does many panels and never fails to make the point when he is asked how he has got to where he is.

He gives me spousal maintenance (which included paying everything for the first two years post split) and will continue to do so until my own business which I am steadily growing is of a matching level

Si1verst0rm I don’t think you need to be a high earner to be achieved in life. You don’t have to be earning a lot to make a difference with a career.

Bringing up 4 kids is something that can be achieved alongside other things though so I’m not sure what your point is.

No I don’t think parenting is all functional etc etc but many working parents still manage to parent alongside a career, you don’t need to be a SAHM to parent correctly what a bizarre suggestion.

There was no deliberate catching out of anyone. There was a straightforward "My name is, how nice to meet you.

Oh come off it!! You said:

I did once introduce myself to an ambitious young woman at a party as "Raindrops. She asked me what I did and when I said I was a housewife, she turned her back.

Half an hour later DH turned to her and said "let me introduce you to my wife". Her face was an absolute picture. DH was her boss.

You describe her as "an ambitious young woman" and you identify yourself to her as "a housewife". That's a bit more than "my name is x".

And then look at your nasty little gloating glee "Her face was a picture" when she realises rather than just being a housewife you are the wife of her boss.

Frankly - who gives a shit whether you are her boss's wife?
Those days are gone.

There's no excuse for bad manners I agree but if you are trying to network at a party for business purposes, you are better of concentrating your time and efforts on - oh yes - potential business contacts.

But my main point was about your astonishing hypocrisy when - having produced this choice anecdote of how you caught out a young woman failing to toady to you as the boss's wife - you concluded with "Women are their own worst enemy with the constant criticisms and bitching imo."

What's all that if not criticism and bitching?

I think a lot of women have themselves convinced that their husbands wouldn’t possibly be able to earn or live like they do without their support.

It’s completly wrong. They would go on exactly as they are now and rope in their mothers/a nanny/cleaner to do the bits they can’t do. They’d arrange dry cleaning to be delivered and eat out, you would still have the DC the majority of the time. You would still have them if they were sick (because he works) their lives would go on completly as before (if not better now they have 5 nights average a week with no family responsibility)

It happens time and time again. You are facilitating their life at the moment, that doesn’t mean it would fall apart without you. They are facilitating your life with money and being able to raise your children as you want to, that certainly would change come a divorce.

*better off

My money is mine,I earn it. We don’t have joint monies. A joint account for mortgage, utilities, shared costs. I’d never have joint finances with partner.

Then fair enough Jaques, but I can assure you it’s very rare for a man to credit his current wife, never mind his ex wife, with his own success, as said, unless she’s standing listening, and when the new woman makes an appearance it’s rare as rocking horse shit that a man will publicly credit his ex for his success.

I don't think it's so easy to replace a mother if a wife is no longer there and that role cannot be purchased. Ask any child whose mother has died or man who is bringing up his children as a widower.

that certainly would change come a divorce

That MIGHT change.

Meh, we've had a great life; raised four happy healthy, high achieving kids; achieved financial security; and we have an excellent work life balance. I was a SAHP for many years. That choice worked brilliantly for us. I give absolutely zero fucks if anyone judges me for it.

This we earn is totally delusional. The money belongs to the person who earns it. They can easily have that money transferred into their own name any time they wish. And the salary won't be ours if you split up. It's this kind of thinking that leaves people high and dry and thinking how did this happen. It happened because people are naïve and think it can't happen to them. It can.

AutumnFalling spot on,quite simply a solvent man would outsource his tasks, he isn’t dependent on a sole individual.the tasks need done, and at present a SAHM does them,if that changed he’d outsource the task with no detriment to his career or progression

Eugh... the smugness on this thread.

I don't think it's so easy to replace a mother if a wife is no longer there and that role cannot be purchased. Ask any child whose mother has died or man who is bringing up his children as a widower

Totally agree, a mother can never be replaced. However childcare is something else, be it extended family. Nannies, au pairs, boarding school, child care can be outsourced and happily /successfully so.

@RaindropsAndSparkles

In terms of quantifiable output? Of course it is. You get a cleaner, nanny who can also do a few meals, and Deliveroo.

Btw who the fuck sits around pondering "darling, how much do you think we're worth?"

Op you have hugely contradicted yourself.
On one hand you have said that you are saddened stay at home mothers and their financial vulnerability. Then you are calling them lazy.
This post is about you looking down on stay at home mothers. I wouldn't be surprised if this is from your own guilt and jealousy and it's nasty.
For what it's worth I work 30 hour week spread over 3.5 days so I feel Kim I get plenty of time with ds and this works for us with childcare. However if I had the option to be at home for a few years and focus on him all of the time I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I'm not jealous of stay at mums, they work hard all day with no break. But neither do I pity them. At the end of the day they get all the time in the world with their precious babies, who could regret that?
Its a lifestyle decision they have made. Then don't need pity (or in your case I believe envy and spite).
As for the posters who haven't yet had kids and are slating Sahm, get a grip you don't even know how you will feel If/when the time comes I have know career focussed women give it all up because they want to, their priorities have changed. Likewise other women who believe they will be sahm can't abide it when they realise what it is/can be like and for their own mental health they go back full time.
There are some very judgemental people on this thread, I think it's awful you have to put others down to justify your own decisions.

Too much focus on the money side of things here. ‘His money’, ‘my money’ ... And too much black and white ‘high flying career’ or ‘SAHM with no earnings prospects.’

Surely most people get fulfilment and self worth out of a range of things? I would genuinely feel really odd if having children was my only achievement; likewise I would feel really odd if my sense of achievement depended totally on my career. I have dd and ds (now in their twenties) and I honestly would find it weird if either of them felt their future was pigeonholed into ‘provider’ or ‘carer.’ They’re all pretty equal in terms of qualifications, career, domestic skills and all equally keen to be parents at some point in the future. I guess being raised by parents who both have fulfilling and reasonably well paid (though not shed loads) jobs, and who’ve also taken a pretty equal role in the home side of things, will have contributed to their outlook. But id have thought its more common now anyway for people to not want to fall into stereo typed roles.

Bottom line - life is for living and thank the lord we no longer live in an era when women don’t have access to certain professions, and where men are expected to be sole provider while the kids are the wife’s domain

Oh and as for finances that is a risk they choose to take. You take a risk when you select nurserys and people to care for your child other than you. It depends on what is acceptable to you. Again who are you to judge.

Bluntness - but would these same men acknowledge their wives any more if they were working?

As a SAHM (or any wife for that matter), you will be very aware of whether your husband values you or not, as so many threads on here demonstrate. The SAHM set-up only really works where there is mutual respect. In that way, it's no different to any other marriage really.

When DH and I met we both wanted children. He knew I would want to be at home with them. I knew what he was like in terms of his work focus. Other women might not have put up with him, but it worked for me. Neither of us would dream of having nannies bringing up our kids, so he probably wouldn't have gone into a marriage with a woman who was hell-bent on her career before kids. I wouldn't have gone into a marriage with a man who expected me to prioritise earning money over raising my DC. There are all types out there and each to their own.

I said only last week to DH, "how much do you think we are worth

Why do you need to ask, why do you not know? I don’t need to ask my husband how much “we”are worth, I know. His income is his, mine is mine, we have a joint account, but both of us being equal know what we are worth. I can’t get my head round the fact you have no idea and have to ask your husband.

DH's ability to work late, leave the country at short notice, entertain clients at no notice, always go to work regardless of sick children, sports days, nativities, INSET, school holidays, etc, meant that he was the guy who got the chances, was able to shine, and climbed briskly up the career ladder.

This comment's from page one. Don't want to pick out the poster because there are plenty of other posts in a similar vein. But what it does make me think is that this actually contributes to employers having the expectation that the best employees are those who never have to prioritise (or even consider) their life outside work. And that itself has a knock on effect that means anyone with kids or, in fact, a personal life looks like a less than ideal employee, when in fact they're just being a human being. This is what makes things asking to work flexibly to attend your kid's nativity play seem so outrageous to some employers, when it should be something normal and manageable at least some of the time - if work wasn't the almighty god that had to come ahead of everything else, always.

Not really sure what I'm concluding or what the answer is. Unless it's that maybe sometimes even the high flyer who is able to do everything work asks of him, at zero notice, because the other parent is at home, should say 'actually I'd really like to be able to see my kid in their school play that day' just to bring the human being back into his (and it's still overwhelmingly his) workplace.

Raindrops, you aren't the boss so I doubt anyone would care.