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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to be annoyed at school asking for money so aggressively?

148 replies

HoneyBadgerApparently · 18/10/2017 19:17

My sons school have been asking for £10 ‘activity money’ since the start of term. At first it started with letters, then texts, and now today a letter that has a big spiel frankly shaming the people who haven’t paid and saying they will be speaking to individual parents if the money isn’t paid in the next couple of weeks. It’s a non-faith state school and at no point have they stated the donation is voluntary. My husband is an accountant and I was (now a SAHM) and we know the school shouldn’t do this.
We live in an area of very mixed incomes. We’re lucky enough to be able to afford to pay this sort of thing without an issue (we paid on this first day, the reminders go out to everyone), however some of the parents at the school are struggling to buy their kids a warm coat never mind money for pantomimes, charity christmas cards, own clothes day, trips etc and with multiple kids it all adds up. It doesn’t mean these parents care less about their child’s education! Today in the playground I could hear a mother worriedly telling a friend they didn’t have the money (she had 3 kids with her, £30 could be their weekly food shop…)
AIBU to mention to a staff member that they should legally be stating the donation is voluntary? And not shaming people! I don’t want to be ‘that’ mum, but I feel like they are bullying people who likely don’t know this is optional. The letter sounds more like a bailiff letter than a school that should be supporting vulnerable families.

OP posts:
Guardsman18 · 20/10/2017 13:21

I second bringing the matter up at PTA meeting or get on the Board of Governors. It has been brought to your attention, rather than I think. Hope that makes sense!

Guardsman18 · 20/10/2017 13:25

Silly me, should have kept reading! Disgraceful behaviour

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/10/2017 13:29

The PTA can't do anything. This is an operational issue with the school. Head, then governors and then OFSTED and LA if no joy as per the complaints process.

Neolara · 20/10/2017 13:39

I'm a chair of governors. I would make an official complaint, following the procedures outlined in the complaints policy which should be available on the school website. I would be suggesting to the governor that has been involved in this, that she raises with the governing body why pupil premium funding isn't used to ensure pupil premium children can participate in activities that pupils have to pay towards.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/10/2017 13:56

I agree with you Neolara.

As part of good governance there should be a governor with accountability for Pupil Premium. I would go and speak to them as well.

I can barely believe this. It is so shocking and so lacking in compassion.

TheDayIBroke · 20/10/2017 15:30

Awful behaviour by the school! Please don't let this lie - the office lady's attitude was utterly disgusting and devoid of any empathy for your friend's plight. SadAngry

Next time (probably next term) there is a demand for money each and every parent should refuse to pay. AngryAngry

Hopefully, the parent governor will ensure this is discussed at the next meeting.

Sirrah · 20/10/2017 15:37

It's not great, the school should be clearer about what the money is needed for. Unfortunately schools are having to do this more and more, some are even struggling to pay for essential staff. I know of one school which suggests a contribution towards educational trips, but those who can afford to put a bit more in the kitty to help out those who can't.

Sirrah · 20/10/2017 15:43

Sorry, just read your update and I'm horrified! No parents should be treated that way, the school could have taken food out of the mouths of those children by taking her last £5!

Ceto · 20/10/2017 15:44

I suspect the governors may have endorsed the request for money, but I very much doubt that they would go along with bullying parents in this way. Other issues apart, it's a waste of teachers' time. I agree you shoul let the Chair of Governors know ASAP - it needn't matter that there isn't a governors' meeting due yet, the Chair can take some action off their own bat and can get the other governors' views by email.

Boysarebackintown · 20/10/2017 16:15

Shocking behaviour and well done op for backing your friend. I would be taking it further as Neolara suggests above. Our school does similar but it's requested once and reminders are never sent.
Not to derail the thread but I am interested in the pupil premium comments - my friends DC qualifies and has just started new school - friend write to ask where she could be getting support with this PP ( not being grabby just enquiringly) and was told quite forcefully that the money is used to help ALL pupils so her DC would benefit by virtue of the fact they will spent it in school. If I am right this was not the intention of PP? I thought this was to benefit the actual child e.g. Such as in this situation.

Sirrah · 20/10/2017 16:20

Boysarebackintown Pupil Premium does tend to be swallowed by the whole school budget, but the school should have something in the policies explaining how it is actually used to help the PP children.

magpiemischief · 20/10/2017 16:24

PP money is supposed to be targeted towards the qualifying pupils. It’s purpose is to tackle the attainment gaps between economically and socially disadvantaged pupils and those from more privileged backgrounds. This cannot be achieved if it is just used as a ‘money pot’ for the school to spend on whatever they like. Schools have to publish reports which detail their PP spending.

magpiemischief · 20/10/2017 16:25

They can also be forced to do a PP audit if, when inspected, they cannot properly justify their spending in this area.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/10/2017 16:34

As a school governor I have to know where PP money is being spent. Off the top of my head (and I obviously have full reports etc in my file so I can give a comprehensive answer to OFSTED or whoever):

Trips - all PP children have their "voluntary contribution" paid for by the school.

Free school meals - all PP children are entitled to a FSM.

Targeted interventions - these include but are not limited to playworker sessions, speech and language, reading, an online support thing

Music lessons

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 20/10/2017 16:38

Some of it also goes on TAs and specific training for teachers and TAs to deliver interventions.

We would never behave the way the school has in the op.

SexLubeAndAFishSlice · 20/10/2017 18:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bubblebubblepop · 20/10/2017 18:57

Im a school gov who has just been "transferred" to a school which has gone into special measures.

There was plenty of money- it's frustrating to see how under-utilised the budgets are.

However, before the head left (him of special measures) it was being spent on an enourmous amount of shit, including misallocated PP. it's really opened my eyes and I'm afraid I can no longer blindly believe schools don't have enough money for books or loo roll or stationary or whatever they say it's for

HoneyBadgerApparently · 21/10/2017 12:38

UPDATE… SORRY FOR RIDICULOUSLY LONG POST BUT I’M UPSET AND NEEDED TO GET IT OUT

I went into school yesterday morning to speak to the assistant head. I’d completely calmed down from the day before and realised I had to speak very carefully, this is DS school I don’t want to make things awkward. I thought the best way to deal with it would be to just have an informal chat, say there’s been a misunderstanding that’s caused some upset, hopefully she’d say yes it’s a misunderstanding we’ll send out another letter and it would all be over.

Assistant head took me to the staff room where another teacher was sat right next to us marking. I’ve got to be honest, I was already nervous to speak to her because she very much has that teacher authority and I’m a complete wimp. This is not the person I would like to face with my financial difficulties!

I started off with saying I really appreciate all the activities the school does, my DS is really happy here and loves his teachers, the school is supportive to families in so many ways, there’s just this one issue I wanted to bring to your attention, and by having an informal chat with you as first point of contact I’m following the school ‘constructive-feedback’ (complaints) procedure.

Then went on to that parents aren’t interpreting the payment as voluntary and some parents who didn’t have the money felt pressurised by the ‘speak to you individually’ comment. She said it’s only that letter that hasn’t stated it’s voluntary, it’s stated in previous letters/ the welcome pack. I said with respect I could show her all those documents, it isn’t stated. She said it has been verbally mentioned before (?), people just know. I don't think she really saw the problem. I tried to explain that’s not how it has been interpreted, parents don’t know, when directly asked the office said it was compulsory, and said the law states to put voluntary on each communication to avoid this kind of misunderstanding and protect both the school and parents. I soon as I mentioned the legal side she said I feel attacked, you’re attacking me, you’re making me uncomfortable mentioning laws, no one has been pressurised. I was taken aback, told her that wasn’t my intention but this is friends situation (last £5, putting her on a payment plan), friend has been pressurised. She said I feel attacked, she has been a single mother in the past and would of course have told friend she didn’t have to pay if friend had gone to her. I tried to explain that I truly believe she would of (which I do), but it would have been humiliating for friend, and friend shouldn’t have to explain herself over voluntary payment, also office isn’t on the same page as they said she had to pay, but it was too late. Whenever I tried to speak she said you’re interrupting me I haven’t finished speaking (even though she had cut me off), she was saying why are you speaking to me, this isn’t to do with you, you should be sending people to speak to me if you overhear them, (basically why are you causing trouble). She was completely calm when she was speaking, if ever I raised a relevant point she just cut in with I feel attacked, the other teacher was sat right there pretending he wasn’t watching and more teachers kept walking in an out, I felt ganged up on and then the lovely TA who my son adores walked in and looked at us all like WTF. I thought what have I done, why didn’t I bring a witness or put this in writing, I’m going to ruin things for my DS, I felt so frustrated I ended up in tears and completely humiliated with it all.

I said I wasn’t attacking you, I am coming to you informally because I think this is a serious issue and that’s the procedure, I wasn’t trying to say you’d intentionally done anything (though honesty I think they have), I’m suggesting the office staff have misunderstood therefore are giving out the wrong info, we can change this. I’m trying to help fix this not get anyone in trouble, if I was I would have just reported the school to LA or Ofsted anonymously (which by this point I wish I’d done) instead of trying to have an informal chat. Somehow I ended up apologising for the whole situation, in tears, while these teachers looked on, even though they have broken the law and lied to and humiliated struggling friend! I was completely pathetic, and I’m so disappointed with myself.

Anyway, after I had cried and apologised she told me it’s the parents who just don’t want to pay the letter is targeting (I didn't bother with the unwilling/unable doesn't matter part of law, I just sat there trying to stop crying), she wasn’t trying to make people who can’t pay struggle more but she realises it could have been confusing for parents, she would be phoning friend today to tell her she didn’t have to pay the other fiver, speaking to office, and sending out another letter at home time so parents weren’t worrying. This is exactly what I was hoping for so what else could she say, but I still left the meeting embarrassed and feeling awful.

Anyway, friend had missed call off school just after meeting (yesterday morning), no message, she rang back straight away but they never got back to her. Then at home time no letter was sent out. And now it’s half term so any parent worrying about it will be worrying for another week. I realise it’s probably hard to send everyone a letter in one day but what about a text. We get a group text to all parents if someone so much as loses a jumper, couldn’t they have sent a group text ‘TO CLARIFY, ACTIVITY MONEY IS VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTION’?
So nothing has been done (at least so far) and I somehow look like the bad, attacking, trouble maker for wanting them to act legally. I’m so worried they’ll treat my DS differently because of this. I know they shouldn’t but they also shouldn’t force people onto payment plans for voluntary contributions. I have two younger DC who are meant to be going to the same school and I feel like going somewhere else now.

OP posts:
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 21/10/2017 12:51

Written complaint, stating facts to the head and copying the board of governors is the next step. You can't reason with the unreasonable.

The way the assistant head has behaved making it all personal and about her is deeply unprofessional. She should also have discussed the matter in private. I completely understand why you got upset.

Chin up, you may have lost the battle but you haven't lost the war. You are right and you are doing the right thing but now you need to stop trying to be helpful and accommodating. Put it in writing and keep them at arms length.

Follow the process, don't get involved in the emotionally manipulative stuff and keep the objective in sight: change the communications, change the attitude and change the treatment of people going to the office.

magpiemischief · 21/10/2017 13:00

Oh poor you, that is really quite disreputable of them.

If it is of any comfort, I was that parent for a number of years at Primary, it was necessary as I had a DC with a Statement of SEN. They were quite awful at receiving parental feedback but I had to give it and I wasn’t going to lie just to ‘play the game’. However my DC still did really well, got 5s in the SATs and the Statement was able to be ceased some years before the SATs.

I would let this meeting blow over but if they continue with the aggressive tactics then out a complaint into the LA and OFSTED.

magpiemischief · 21/10/2017 13:01

Yes, to Moving, I agree with the formal complaint in writing.

HoneyBadgerApparently · 21/10/2017 13:05

Thank you MovingOnUpMovingOnOut I think you are right, I'm not going to give up so easily

OP posts:
aaaaargghhhhelpme · 21/10/2017 13:06

Well done op. Flowers many people wouldn't have the balls to do what you did. Don't worry about getting upset. It sounds like a truly horrific meeting. I can't believe the deputy head treated you like that.

Maybe someone with better legal knowledge will help. For me, I would consider a letter to the head, outlining your meeting - what the deputy said they would do - and what has happened.

I guess as its half term now you're probably not going to hear from them till then. I would look into la and ofsted. How to report and whether there is a contact you can have a chat with to discuss your concerns (before making an official complaint) maybe that would help?!

Sorry can't help more. Just wanted to say I think you're amazing. Can you get some more parents on board? Take some of the pressure off yourself. Take care and try not to think too much about it over half term Flowers

HoneyBadgerApparently · 21/10/2017 13:07

Thank you everyone who has commented on the thread as well. At the end of the meeting yesterday I genuinely wondered if IABU or blowing this out of proportion, I'm glad I could read all through this so I know I'm not crazy!

OP posts:
Indiana50 · 21/10/2017 13:40

You should refer to the school's charging and remissions policy - they are required to have one by statute. This is the basis.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/514619/Charging_for_school_activities.pdf

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