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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

999 replies

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 08:13

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:54

So

No one has said that every poster that disagrees with them is a man

Im not sure if i can make this any clearer

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 12:55

"Make I feel that getting bogged down in the semantics of 'some' or 'all' is a way of derailing a thread so we can yet again have 'NAMALT' 'women too' blah blah when it's obvious what the discussion is actually about."

is exactly what some of us are talking about. Being really patronising and dismissive because people don't agree with you or challenge your opinions."

But the problem is that the NAMALT posts are incredibly frustrating and time wasting. Everyone who has been on the feminism boards for more than 5 minutes should understand the concept of the "class argument" So when someone says "men" it is a given that this is a characteristic of men overall, not each individual men. Explaining this for the tenth time can get tedious. Particularly when it seems to be perfectly understood on threads about childcare and housework. On those, people say, completely unchallenged " Men just aren't as interested in tiny babies as women are" or "Men just don't see dirt" No cries of NAMALT there..........

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 12:55

And @humanGnomeProject just because you personally haven't experienced the en masse organised trolling and sometimes downright abusive behaviour being posts about on other sites you frequent does not mean it does not happen. Stop minimising and belittling.

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 12:56

Pumper, a thread with the title saying most men are creeps? Yes, I feel the need to disagree with that. Why do you have a problem with that? Because it goes against your opinion? Are only people with the same opinion supposed to post on the thread? It is AIBU after all - she was asking if she was unreasonable to think that. I think she was. If she wanted a thread where the sole purpose was for people to talk about their experiences of sexual assault then she probably would have picked a different title or a different board.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:58

It was a question

Are-most-men-creeps-under-a-thin-veneer-of-civility

The OP believes yes

Mittens1969 · 18/10/2017 12:58

I have experienced unwanted male attention a lot. Sadly, far too young as I suffered SA, as a child (where virtually ALL perpetrators are men). But also as a young adult, one awful incident on an aeroplane where the man next to me kept touching me up.

It’s much less now that I’m a mum, thankfully, and older, I’m invisible mostly, which is great. But I still get unwanted friend requests on Facebook, and attempts to chat me up. My settings are mostly on friends of friends only for friend requests for that reason.

It’s hard to speak negatively about men, because the man I’m married to is lovely, and so are my DBILs. My DFIL too, he died in a car accident back in 2003 sadly. But my DSis’s ex abused her, and my F and B abused us as children. So the fact is that half the men close to us were abusers.

I also help with a charity supporting and training Central Asian women, and there every single woman suffers DV in the home. Some women do go on to become abusive MILs, but it’s a case of victim becoming perpetrator. It’s also all about becoming a mother to a boy.

So I’m afraid, reluctantly, I have to agree with the OP on this, though I would never argue with another woman’s experience. But I wonder if maybe certain things don’t bother you? Like a man in a club asking, ‘Do you want a shag?’ To me, it’s being treated like a piece of meat. But maybe other women can close their minds to it?

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 12:59

It is AIBU after all - she was asking if she was unreasonable to think that. I think she was

Exactly. You don't start a question with a title like that or contribute if you're not prepared to hear other opinions and think only your thoughts are the correct ones.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 13:01

Bert, I don't spend much time on the feminism boards. She didn't just say 'men' in the title of the thread we're talking about. She said 'most men'. In any case, why 'men overall' anyway?

And actually, there are plenty of people who challenge the 'men don't see dirt' posts.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 13:03

Rufus, yes, and I think 'no'. And because this is AIBU and she was asking for opinions, I posted on the thread. Im not sure why Pumper thinks that is wrong.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 13:05

I don't remember what you said bumbley

Sometimes context is everything

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 13:07

I said YABU Grin

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 13:08

"Exactly. You don't start a question with a title like that or contribute if you're not prepared to hear other opinions and think only your thoughts are the correct ones."

But you think your thoughts are the correct ones......!

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 13:08

bumbley but saying not all men or women too isn't disagreeing - it's saying 'you are wrong, this isn't a problem that men have to deal with'.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 18/10/2017 13:08

If I did vote Tory why would I be deluded if I agreed with their policies and their actions Hmm

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 13:09

Well thats fine bumbley

Smile
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 13:09

What if the OP had said 'a lot of men' bumbley

averylongtimeago · 18/10/2017 13:10

Over the years I have been here, the site has changed.
From a predominantly female site, which was supportive (well mostly!) the number of unpleasant trolls, the MRAs the apologists for male violence ,the victim blaming and general snarkyness has increased to a point where I wonder what the point is.
I think it also not helped by "fake " profiles who join to post political propaganda, this has been really noticeable with Brexit and the last GE.

It's a shame, as if it continues MN will finish.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 13:11

I don't understand the "not being prepared to accept/consider/think about other people's point of view" thing. How do you know that the posters concerned haven't considered other people's cintributions very carefully but decided they hold to their original opinion?

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 13:16

But you think your thoughts are the correct ones......!

I don't disabelieve others experiences just because they aren't the same as mine.
I listen to others points of view. I know lots of women have been abused. Sad
I don't think they must be a man in disguise, or lying.

If someone says "are most men creeps" expect to hear YABU as well as YANBU.

BeyondNoone · 18/10/2017 13:17

What is the quantative difference between "most" and "a lot of" in your opinion ? What cut off does "most" have?

I'd say anything over 50% is most. Is saying 51% of men hide their misogyny under a thin veneer of civility really a contentious opinion? One so contentious that not only did you disagree on the thread, but you have brought it here too?

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 13:17

Baroness I suggested that on the other thread! That men no longer approaching women in strange situations didn't meant the end of all social interaction because women could still approach men. No takers though 👎

BeyondNoone · 18/10/2017 13:19

As I said earlier, it is a sliding scale. And I'm quite sure the men at the minor end number more than 50% of the male population.

whiskyowl · 18/10/2017 13:22

This is becoming a TAAT!

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 13:22

Pumperthepumper doesn't surprise me after all only 'loose' women behave in a forward manner. We have a long way to go before we are truly equal

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 13:26

Pumperthepumper doesn't surprise me after all only 'loose' women behave in a forward manner.

Nobody's said that. Confused Hmm
Course women can speak to men first. Just like men should be able to speak to women first and not automatically assume she can't be spoken to as she might be too traumatised from past events.