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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

999 replies

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 08:13

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:19

And once again

No one is saying that every dissenting opinion in a MRA in disguise

But there are definitely MRA posters who pretend to be women

In the same way as on the election threads some poeple were pretending to be labour/tory

derxa · 18/10/2017 12:20

I stand corrected DailyMail

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 12:20

I'm fully prepared to believe that Kryten is very different from me, for example she likes strange men coming up to her and talking to her (from another thread), I don't. I see and experience casual sexism and abuse and harassment on a daily basis, she doesn't. We may as well live in 2 different worlds.

humanGnomeProject · 18/10/2017 12:22

@BeyondNoone

Yes. I missed them. I assume that they weren't planned in the kinds of places I browse.

@Telstar99

"I do wonder if some women HAVE been groped, harassed, catcalled etc, but don't realise it"

The insinuation seems to be that there are 2 kinds of women; those who have been sexually harassed and those who don't know that they have been sexually harassed. I know it's not quite what you said, but it seems fascinating that you'll try to tell women that they're wrong about such an important matter. Do you want to start the hashtag #youtoo ?

@DailyMailReadersAreThick

Where is the proof of institutional oppression of women or a patriarchy? Show me a single fact which proves it and I'll apologise and happily change my opinion. I'm not sure that the word 'fact' means what you think it does.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Why are you (and others) so intent on beliving that those who disagree with you must be men? Why do you want to pit the genders against each other? Why can't you accept that women think differently. The notion of us being a homogenous blob is something that feminism fought against when I called myself one.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:24

human

why are you (and others) so intent on beliving that those who disagree with you must be men

No one has said this

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:25

There's no conspiracy where men meet up in a garage / shed / pub to plan an invasion and annoy a few parents ona chat forum.

So i assume that you agree that there may be a 'conspiracy' to annoy mumsnetters...its just that yiu haven't seen it

Which is obviously fair enough

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 12:30

why are you (and others) so intent on beliving that those who disagree with you must be men

No one has said this

Not out and out calling someone a man, no, but it's very heavily insinuated. Cryptic "must be lots of MRA's on here".... for example to everyone who disagrees....

BeyondNoone · 18/10/2017 12:33

You can be a female MRA. They exist.

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 12:34

I'm fully prepared to believe that Kryten is very different from me, for example she likes strange men coming up to her and talking to her (from another thread)

Someone asked "so would you be happy with a man talking to you if you were at a train station and no-one else is around?"
I said, "talking, yes. Why wouldn't I be? It's just a person."
Passing time of day, or chatting about the weather or whatever, don't see a problem.
Harassing and not knowing when to shut up if someone is uncomfortable or getting right in their face would be another matter entirely.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 18/10/2017 12:38

I said some MRA's ....

I am well aware that some women have different opions to myself that some dislike the feminist stance I take I am the daughter of one

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 12:38

Yes you would be happy but I wouldn't because you and I have led completely different lives. That's the point you need to respect my view just as I need to respect yours.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 12:38

Pumper, because you know just by looking at the title what the thread is going to be like.

Oh and this comment from you earlier

"Make I feel that getting bogged down in the semantics of 'some' or 'all' is a way of derailing a thread so we can yet again have 'NAMALT' 'women too' blah blah when it's obvious what the discussion is actually about."

is exactly what some of us are talking about. Being really patronising and dismissive because people don't agree with you or challenge your opinions.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 12:39

Krytens it was me who asked you the question and that wasn't it. It was 'would you be happy for a man to approach you at 11pm in an otherwise deserted train carriage' or words to that effect. Your answer was the same though.

whiskyowl · 18/10/2017 12:40

"The insinuation seems to be that there are 2 kinds of women; those who have been sexually harassed and those who don't know that they have been sexually harassed."

Not from me. My argument has been that there are (at least) 3 kinds of women

  1. Those who have been harassed/assaulted and are conscious of it
  2. Those who have been harassed/assaulted and are not conscious of it
  3. Those who have not been harassed/assaulted.

There may be some women who put themselves in group 3 who are actually group 2, but there may also be women who just haven't experienced this. It's hard for those in group 1 to understand what the experience of group 3 might be like. Perhaps it's also hard in reverse - for group 3 to understand the world of group 1 - I'm not able to speak to that.

Equally, there clearly are organised raids by those who are anti-feminist on Mumsnet. But there are also occasions when someone who disagrees with the dominant white, liberal, second wave kind of feminism that prevails here to be accused of being men. (I've had this myself). BOTH of those things can be true. There is no contradiction between them.

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 12:43

Krytens it was me who asked you the question and that wasn't it. It was 'would you be happy for a man to approach you at 11pm in an otherwise deserted train carriage

Someone asked "so would you be happy with a man talking to you if you were at a train station and no-one else is around?"

OK then, swap the deserted train station for deserted train carriage. Same thing really.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:46

kryten

I have seen posters on here accuse someone of being a man when they are not...i think that is out of order

But

There is no one here who believes that every poster who disagrees with them is a man, which is what i am saying

And there have definitely been men on here pretending to be women

And you do not have to be a man to be a MRA, so the phrase 'there are loads of MRA on here' does not mean that the poster thinks there are loads of men disguising themselves as women

humanGnomeProject · 18/10/2017 12:47

@BeyondNoone

"You can be a female MRA. They exist."

Yes. I'm a professional MRA (in education), as I said earlier.

@Rufustherenegadereindeer1

post #4
"I think it’s MRA’s pretending to be women"

post #6
"Yes, I've noticed it to. I think there are a lot more men posting, including some who have come here en mass from other sites to cause disruption"

post #8

"Yes, there are. That group is called "men"

~40% before I got bored looking.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:47

Oh shit i cross posted with beyond

I have a dreadful habit of replying as i read

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:48

Agree with whisky

Smile
Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 12:48

bumbley you find that patronising, yet read a thread about people talking about their experiences of sexual assault and feel the need to stick up for the men in their own life? Right.

Original poster
PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 12:49

Sorry for going MIA I got called into work.
I think some posters have understood what I was clumsily trying to say. That if a woman posts about a male somewhere in her life doing x unreasonable/abusive/horrible thing there will be victim blaming posters just dying to make her doubt her experience.

OP posts:
BeyondNoone · 18/10/2017 12:52

Never hurts for a good thing to be said twice, rufus Wink

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 12:52

Yes human

But as i have repeatedly said no one believes that EVERYONE who disagrees with them is automatically a man

And again...there have been instances of MRA men pretending to be women

And as i said to kyrten there have been posters who have done this, but not every poster

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 12:52

Sorry, should read 'your own life'

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 12:54

Krytens it was me who asked you the question and that wasn't it. It was 'would you be happy for a man to approach you at 11pm in an otherwise deserted train carriage

Why does it have to be the man who approaches you? Would it not be better to have a system whereby women who wish to talk to a man take the initiative. The whole way it's down to men to start a conversation is part of the problem. Letting women do the approaching is an easy solution but the reason it won't happen is patriarchy