To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

[PerryPerryThePlatypus]

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

I think that your second post summed up the issues fairly well @PerryPerryThePlatypus

Besides missing the point that not all women (and certainly not all people who use MN) have the same ideas, your dismissal of NAMALTS and MRAs shows how you really can't imagine that some of us simply don't believe in "the patriarchy" or "institutional oppression". It doesn't make us stupid or ignorant or misogynist; we simply have different views.

The notion of MRA invasions really does show the imagined self-importance of some posters. There's no conspiracy where men meet up in a garage / shed / pub to plan an invasion and annoy a few parents ona chat forum. In the same way 'feminanzi' gets a post deleted, I think MRA should too. In itself, I think it's a fine acronym but it's been taken over to have a very derogatory meaning. I'm a professional MRA (well, boys in education). It's a shame it's been hijacked by RFs. Despite never wanting to troll, if I did, I can think of much more obvious targets!

I don't downplay the institutional oppression of women. I believe I speak about it in a measured way. I think others overblow it. Not individual cases as each and every one is terrible but I do believe it isn't institutional or that we live in a patriarchy or rape culture. I occasionally debate it on AIBU in the same way I may religion but I wouldn't bother on the feminism board as that would be trolling (like arguing against religion in a church).

OP, I think your belief that anyone who dares disagree with you is a troll, man or some belittling acronym shows your lack of critical thinking and maturity.

Make I feel that getting bogged down in the semantics of 'some' or 'all' is a way of derailing a thread so we can yet again have 'NAMALT' 'women too' blah blah when it's obvious what the discussion is actually about.

"There's no conspiracy where men meet up in a garage / shed / pub to plan an invasion and annoy a few parents ona chat forum"

I presume you missed the previous ones that were planned on publicly viewable sites?

Yes and yes to Kristina and daily's posts, btw

There's no conspiracy where men meet up in a garage / shed / pub to plan an invasion and annoy a few parents ona chat forum

Well no

Its online

4chan, Reddit, pieandmash, f4j...

Pumper , do you think 'so many' women think that most men are creeps? I don't think they do. I think there are definitely creeps and I think very few women would deny that but I don't think very many think the majority of men are creeps.

Agree with what @Kr1st1na said. I do wonder if some women HAVE been groped, harassed, catcalled etc, but don't realise it, or have shut it out? Or as she said, don't want to admit it to anyone - not even themselves - because that would be (to them!) a suggestion that they 'encouraged' it.

And in response to what one poster said; it is not 'wrong' for me to say I am struggling to believe women who say they have never had catcalls or whistles or harassment or groping or been discriminated against because they are a woman; it is RIGHT to say that, because I AM struggling to believe it.

I have also not called anyone a liar, or stupid. Someone else must have. I certainly have not.

Cross post beyond

Yes, I do. And so do a lot (most?) of the women on that thread.

...shows how you really can't imagine that some of us simply don't believe in "the patriarchy" or "institutional oppression". It doesn't make us stupid or ignorant or misogynist;

What else do you call blindness to facts?

I don’t know if you’re being unreasonable or not as I’ve never really noticed it - but generally speaking, posting on MN, or any other parenting forum, is not going to change the world. Emmeline Pankhurst managed quite well without it.

Definitely some MRA's pretending to be women

And some men who feel it's their duty to inform women how wrong they are no doubt these men are avoided by most women the office creep the men who talk over women the men have to correct women we know the type and they are certainly on here

I do wonder if some women HAVE been groped, harassed, catcalled etc, but don't realise it, or have shut it out?

Again, I HAVEN'T. Doesn't mean I'm in denial. Open your mind to people actually being different to you.

You only have to find any MN thread about a woman being catcalled to see that some people interpret harassment as harmless fun or flattery... I have never actually read people saying on MN that these awful behaviours are harmless fun or flattery.

surferjet change comes about in part through people sharing ideas. If posting here changes nothinh why are politicians so keen to come talk to us?

Emmeline Pankhurst managed quite well without it.

Pumper, sorry but I don't think that the few MNers that decided to post on that thread are representative of all women (or all MNers for that matter! I think many would have avoided posting on it because the title was so inflammatory)

Definitely some MRA's pretending to be women

Who would that be, then? Women are allowed to hold different opinions/have different experiences to you, you know.
If you're secretly pondering me, I'm sure MN would vouch for me as I've been here ages and on loads of topics/surveys/product tests etc.
Instead of insinuating anyone with a different opinion to your own is a hiding man.

I hope it is MRAs posing as women, because if not we live in a pretty depressing world! I've all but given up trying to speak up about women's issues, simply because from reading these boards it seem like most women are happy with their lot.

Surely the whole point of the creep thread was that it is a spectrum? And yes, most men aren't out and out rapists.
But a higher percentage would carry out an assault or DV.
And a higher percentage than that would make sexual threats.
And a higher percentage than that wouldn't think twice about having sex with someone too drunk to consent
And a higher percentage than that would make inappropriate comments.
And a higher percentage than that would think inappropriate thoughts, and check themselves before they say them
And a higher percentage than that would not say anything when others say something inappropriate

That leaves a small minority who are not "creeps behind social niceness"

derxa Here you go -
first thread I found:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3016092-people-who-think-catcalling-is-flattering

"It might be a crap way to go about it but it's just a holy shit you are hot as hot can get kinda thing. Why be pissed about it? "

"It's always kinda depressed me that I'm not pretty enough to BE catcalled!"

"I don't feel offended by it, only had it twice and the first time it made me quietly pleased!"

"i dont mind being catcalled, but thats probably because i dont overthink it."

"When I was at uni my three flatmates used to tell me about getting cat called all the time walking to uni. It never happened to me. To my shame I was very jealous of them."

"I like it. I feel like someone has actually noticed the effort I've put into myself!"

"I've been beeped at and the bloke has given me a beaming grin, I must be "that sort of person" as I didn't mind it and it actually made me smile."

And some men who feel it's their duty to inform women how wrong they are

Well if you vote Tory, I'm going to tell you how deluded you are.

Bumbley, why? Why would the title put them off if they disagreed without having to say 'my husband isn't like this'?

make

As long as you say the same to male and female posters thats fine