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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

999 replies

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 08:13

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 21:53

Quite possibly enthusiasm

Im just tired of people saying that some posters dont want to talk to men ever

When some of us just want men to talk to us as they would another man

Not because we are women and they would never talk to another man in the same way

But it doesnt matter...

HandbagKrabby · 18/10/2017 21:53

I think the worst thing about rape and sexual assault is that because of historically how the crimes have been dealt with, there doesn't seem to be a way of really knowing roughly what percentage of men we should be very wary of. If you're thinking it's like a couple of thousand men in the whole country then you might feel very safe. If you're thinking it's 10% plus then it doesn't feel very safe at all.

Generally speaking ime lovely men don't insist on taking up your time, approach respectfully in appropriate situations and speak to you like you're a human being.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 21:53

Exactly handbag

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 21:54

Both your last posts Smile

taratill · 18/10/2017 21:57

handbag striking a casual conversation is not 'insisting on taking up your time'.

I don't think I've ever had a conversation with a man who hasn't spoken to me like 'another human being' but there's that phrase again!

I think you are right about percentages though. It is not clear. I'm not frightened because I don't see it as a high percentage.

HandbagKrabby · 18/10/2017 22:01

Well it is taking up my time that I could be using for something that benefits me. I pass the time of day with men and women all the time in context but that is not the same as random man starting up a gendered conversation.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 22:01

taratill thing is though, individual experiences don't really count for much. But we know, we have the facts at our fingertips, we are absolutely certain that most violent crimes are committed by men. So me, and a few other people, think that is worth addressing, and would like to occasionally talk about ways we can improve that. One of our suggestions has been that men are made more aware that women may feel vulnerable when alone, that men recognise that, and act accordingly.

Then we have a spate of posters who say 'no, not all men are like that' 'they're just trying to be friendly' 'have you ever spoken to anyone about that' 'I wouldn't mind that' you must see how unhelpful that is, how little it adds to a constructive, positive change. Even if that's never been your experience, and a few people here have said they've never had unwanted male attention - surely you can see that it's a big enough problem for women for it to be dealt with? So what are your suggestions?

HandbagKrabby · 18/10/2017 22:04

Me and a dad talking about home renovation at school pick up - appropriate context and content. Oh look! Talking to a man! How novel.

Me and some random bloke telling me I have a nice blouse/ smile/ I'm pretty/ or that I should smile or wear a nice blouse when I'm clearly minding my own business - not appropriate and gendered.

I know the difference. You know the difference. Men know the difference.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 22:08

handbag

I agree again Smile

Anyway im off...

Still don't understand why some posters think that random men approaching women for gendered conversations is ok

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 22:09

Sorry pumper

I agree with your post as well Smile

AssassinatedBeauty · 18/10/2017 22:10

@taratill what is the logic you don't understand? No one thinks that all men are "out to get" us and it's not about enjoying talking to people of either sex.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 22:11

Thanks Rufus.

I'm off too everyone, I don't think I can say anything I haven't already said and I've spent far too much time on here today.

Cheerio 👍👍

taratill · 18/10/2017 22:13

pumper how is it a 'positive' change to fail to engage with a class of people because of the actions of some?

I just don't see it.

I don't think most people would. I don't it in the reverse and I don't see it when you apply it to other issues either.

I totally get that women get a harder deal when it comes to prospects in employment, in education, in the home and that is worse the poorer you are and it is even worse if you are a woman of any other minority and I think that as a society we need to address those issues.

I don't , at all, agree with your premise on chit chat.

DancingLedge · 18/10/2017 22:14

What Handbag said. Precisely .

HandbagKrabby · 18/10/2017 22:14

It's nice to be agreed with - napalt (not all posts are like that)

Good night :)

taratill · 18/10/2017 22:17

assassinated it is the assumption that any man who wants to strike up idle conversation with you is doing so for unsavoury reasons.

It is the suggestion that men should realise that women do not want this (conversation) because of the actions of 'some' men and should accept that they cannot do this because women might be offended.

Why should a class of people refrain from acting in a particular way because of the actions of a few?

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 22:18

taratill is it so unreasonable to ask men to stop and think before they try to talk to a strange woman

taratill · 18/10/2017 22:19

handbag of course there is a difference between your 2 scenarios.

I haven't said gendered conversation is OK. I just think that a lot of the time there is a presumption it will be gendered when it won't be.

taratill · 18/10/2017 22:26

Baroness

It all comes down again to it not being a 'positive' suggestion that an entire class of people should not do something because of the actions of a few.

It is a positive suggestion to educate boys on appropriate ways to speak to women.

I don't want to live in a world where an individual person is unable to speak because of the actions of a minority of the same class. That is, in essence, what is being suggested here.

How does repressing a class promote a positive change to help the cause of many women who are disadvantaged due to their sex?

HandbagKrabby · 18/10/2017 22:30

Would they say it to a man? Even if it's not sexual at all in tone? Would they strike up the convo exactly the same if you were a man?

Would they strike up if you were with a man?

If there's a random man there was it just 50/50 they engaged you in conversation and not the man?

I don't owe random men anything, not my time, not my energy, not my scintillating company. Nope. They can save it all up for someone who actually wants to hear it, which is better for all concerned.

AssassinatedBeauty · 18/10/2017 22:31

"Why should a class of people refrain from acting in a particular way because of the actions of a few?"

It's not exactly a hardship is it though? To ask men to think about other people and how their interruption could be taken. Some women would be thrilled to get to chat to someone else late night whilst waiting on their own for a train. It could scare, intimidate or unnerve others. In that situation I would refrain from speaking to a woman unless I was absolutely sure that they wanted to speak to me, maybe by waiting till they start the conversation.

HandbagKrabby · 18/10/2017 22:36

Yes well poor men. Can't even talk at great length to a women they don't know about crap that she doesn't give a shit about.

Maybe you can give examples of these conversations you're having with random men that are so worth defending on the internet?

taratill · 18/10/2017 22:44

OH for goodness sake handbag do you feel the same way about random women that you talk to (that you owe them nothing)? Or is it just men that you really dislike? How does this further the cause of people who actually are disadvantaged because of inequality between men and women! As for examples , err they are so normal and boring, mainly concerning weather, policitics, the dog, the state of the park....

Assassinated I just don't agree with you. I don't particularly care if they do feel disadvantaged. I just don't see why they should be or why any person within any class should be for the actions of a few. I don't see how it helps the bigger cause.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 22:47

I'm not saying they can't speak to any women just to stop and consider if the woman is showing signs that she would be open to a conversation

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 22:47

Aaaand im back

for examples , err they are so normal and boring, mainly concerning weather, policitics, the dog, the state of the park..

So..conversations a man could have with another man and that you were happy reciprocating comfortably