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Original poster

To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

999 replies

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 08:13

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

OP posts:
taratill · 18/10/2017 20:17

horny a power switch would make no difference to my opinion. 96 % of acts of sexual violence being committed by one sex does not equate to 96% of that sex being sexual predators.

I would not expect to have to act differently because of the acts of some women.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 20:17

"You see my problem is that 96% of sexual violence is committed by men does not equate to 96% of men commit acts of sexual violence. "

Exactly Taratill

HornyTortoise · 18/10/2017 20:19

As not every time a man opens his mouth means he's automatically hitting on you!

Ahh but if he is 'opening his mouth' specifically because you are a woman, then it does really.

So yet again we are back to...don't speak to women unless you would also talk to a man under the same circumstances. Its not 'just being friendly' if its just because you are a woman

taratill · 18/10/2017 20:19

horny so why are people scared of men who want to talk to them then?

I'm just not scared of anyone, unless they give me reason to be.

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 20:23

Ahh but if he is 'opening his mouth' specifically because you are a woman, then it does really.

FFS. Who says it must mean it's just because you're a woman that he's talking to you? If you're the only two people at the bus stop for example it's a bit sad if either wouldn't dare speak to each other in case of upsetting/causing alarm.
If it's just general talking, there really is no problem!
I refuse to be of the mindset that there are rapists lurking round every corner and every man is a potential one and he's only talking to me because I'm a woman and he's enjoying a power trip in speaking to me.
Sometimes it can be people just talking to other people.

HornyTortoise · 18/10/2017 20:24

so why are people scared of men who want to talk to them then?

You would have to ask the person who is scared because men want to talk to them?

I am not scared when random men approach me. BUT I do find it a bloody annoyance when I am just trying to go about my day and have made no indication whatsoever that I am interested in them. And its even worse when (as usually happens) they persist in trying to chat you up, or if you make it perfectly clear you are not interested it turns to 'ohh so you are a lesbian' or 'you aren't that pretty anyway'

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 20:26

I'm just not scared of anyone, unless they give me reason to be.

Exactly. If a man was giving off creepy vibes, then of course you'd feel uncomfortable and want to get away. I would too.
To extend it to no-one can speak to you just because they're male is a bit much.

HornyTortoise · 18/10/2017 20:27

If it's just general talking, there really is no problem!

But again, if it was just general talking...then he would also approach a dude to talk to under the same circumstances :S

Its just a bit of thought should really go into it. And if it turns out he is only talking to you because he wants to hit on you, then no, he is not 'just being friendly'...hes trying to hit on you, or is 'just talking' so that he can move onto hitting on you. Its not really that hard to understand so I am wondering if maybe I am not putting what I mean across clearly enough here

taratill · 18/10/2017 20:28

krytens exactly.

Horny I must live a boring dull existence because I haven't experienced anything like you describe since I was in my twenties!

I am probably unusual though because I just love talking to people. I'd probably cheese a few of you off to because I like a good chat.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 20:28

*I go jogging and do not carry rape alarms. I walk the dog in the countryside alone and do not carry pepper spray/ rape alarms. I don't object to talking to men (or women) who I don't know for fear of attack or unwanted sexual advances.

Nor do most women I know*

I find this so interesting because it is just so different to my own experiences and I genuinely can't think of a single woman I know who would happily be approached by a strange man and assume he just fancied a chat. Or one who would go walking alone the countyside and not feel even slightly vulnerable if a man appeared. You say you were more wary at university, what do you think changed?

pallisers · 18/10/2017 20:29

I've had men talk to me whilst waiting for a bus, or when passing by in the street. "Mornin' love" Don't feel threatened though. As it's just been you know, talking.

So have we all. That isn't what anyone but you is talking about.

If you were on a train platform on your own at midnight and a man came up close to you and said "goodnight love" would you feel completely unthreatened because "you know talking"

You clearly move through a different world to me and most people I know. When my son started using public transport in a big city as a young teen, I had the same conversation with him as I did with my daughters - avoid situations that look like they might be dodgy, don't make eye contact if you are concerned, move away quietly etc. It would be great if we all inhabited your violence and threat-free world. We don't.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 18/10/2017 20:30

But you shouldn't of experienced it at all regardless of what age your are

That's the point

HornyTortoise · 18/10/2017 20:31

I must live a boring dull existence because I haven't experienced anything like you describe since I was in my twenties!

I wouldn't say that was boring and dull at all. I would love that to be the case for me tbh Grin I am actually quite jealous of people who can go about their lives without creeps approaching them regularly. I sometimes wonder if its my area thats just worse than other places...or if I am just unlucky

Hell, it was only a few weeks ago that a guy would not take no for an answer and kept on trying to chat me up in a club. Even after I told him I was married he persisted. Until my husband appeared, then he had the fucking cheek to apologize to my husband, rather than to me.

taratill · 18/10/2017 20:31

pumper I think it was just the fact that at university there is a lot more alcohol and promiscuity. More of an expectation of males that women are up for it.

Now when I'm walking the dog for example I'll happily talk to males who are also walking dogs. I'm not in the slightest bit worried that there is anything other than 2 people having a chat.

taratill · 18/10/2017 20:33

horny the difference might be that you go to clubs! I don't particularly like them so don't go to them. Not because of being worried about men , they're just noisy and I'm not fussed about dancing.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 20:34

I'm not scared I just don't want to talk to strangers. I don't make eye contact, l keep my distance, I will wrap myself deep into my coat, how clear does it have to be before I have the right to be left alone.

The point is that we are having to justify our behaviour, we are expected to put ourselves and what we want to one side to accommodate mens behaviour

taratill · 18/10/2017 20:34

would people who don't chat with men chat to Dads on the playground then?

HornyTortoise · 18/10/2017 20:35

the difference might be that you go to clubs! I don't particularly like them so don't go to them. Not because of being worried about men , they're just noisy and I'm not fussed about dancing.

Ahh this happens in a fair few places though, not just in clubs. Though clubs seem especially rife for perverts to be a-groping.

In the past months, I have had 2 random men tell me to 'smile' in the street. I obliged one of them for some reason, and was then told that 'a woman is much prettier when she looks happy'.

I am absolutely certain that these guys would not have said the same to a bloke. So it was specifically because I am a woman. And possibly as they fancied me (but possibly not too, as I think it IS a power thing for somke of them)

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 20:37

"I am probably unusual though because I just love talking to people. I'd probably cheese a few of you off to because I like a good chat."

I've been thinking the exact same thing 😊 I'm wondering is it an introvert/extrovert thing.

Original poster
PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 20:39

Can I please point out that HFA is thought to be just as common in women as in men. Women and girls are often mislabelled and medicated for conditions they do not have and self referrals for dx as adults is rising. Trying to get a girl assessed (although my experience is about 4 years old) under anything but male presentation centered tests is nigh on impossible and often a private assessment is required.
So in education a significant number of girls are being let down, in health a significant number of women are unnecessarily drugged.

And if you knew anything about me HG you would know I am not aggressive in life or online.

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 20:41

"The point is that we are having to justify our behaviour, we are expected to put ourselves and what we want to one side to accommodate mens behaviour"

Shouldn't this just be 'another person's' behaviour - anyone could come up and try to chat to you when you don't want to be spoken to.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 20:45

Shouldn't this just be 'another person's' behaviour - anyone could come up and try to chat to you when you don't want to be spoken to.

isn't saying that exactly what the op is on about by claiming women do it too, it's trying to shut down the conversation

VeraGrant · 18/10/2017 20:46

What has really perturbed me is the number of threads in recent months saying how outrageous it is that in law women cannot rape men.

The absurd, contrived, hypothetical examples (eg a gang of young women hold a men down and take turns to insert a broom handle into his anus) become ever more hysterical, as the OP (and a few others) desperately try and claim equivalence between female on male rape and male on female rape. Apparently women everywhere are jumping onto cocks uninvited all over the place and getting away with it. The bitches.

They also shrug off the very inconvenient truth that most men are both raped and/ or sexually assaulted by other men.

What is the agenda of people like this? To dilute the reality of male sexual violence, I guess. But why? Do they detest women so much that they really, really believe it’s ‘unfair’ that women get all this attention when it comes to rape? Do they really believe that men are terrified for their safety when they see a woman walking towards them on a dark night? That they fear female rapists jumping out from behind bushes?

It’s a hideous, misogynistic tactic used by very inadequate individuals. And all I can hope is that these toxic individuals don’t have wives and/ or daughters. Or even mothers.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 20:49

taratill see, I actually think I felt safer at uni because I went out with my friends and had a laugh, and I could shrug it off when someone grabbed me in a club or whatever. I can't think of a single friend of mine whose 'wary-ness' has eased off as we get older instead of getting worse.

HornyTortoise · 18/10/2017 20:53

anyone could come up and try to chat to you when you don't want to be spoken to.

Yup they could. But lets be honest here, it is much much more likely to be a man approaching you than another woman. For that random 'just friendly' conversation on an empty bus or something. The same way its a lot more likely for men to approach random women than other men. For the 'same' random friendly conversation that is nothing to do with him trying to chat them up at all and all just about the man wanting a conversation with someone