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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

999 replies

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 08:13

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

OP posts:
whiskyowl · 18/10/2017 17:20

Absolutely it could bumbley - my DH is certainly more patient than I am.

I am just a bit Hmm at the number of husbands on Mumsnet who don't seem to be able to see crumbs, or pick up a kitchen knife due to a lack of this so-called patience, particularly when said patience is not at all dented by the rigours of more enjoyable activities like guitar-playing or endlessly long board games etc. Not speaking about any case on this thread, I hasten to add, women here seem sorted out!! But there is thread after thread where the woman is knackered and the DH is basically a lazy fucker masquerading as an incompetent fucker.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 17:22

" There's a world of difference between general chit chat and harassing someone."

Krytens- do you genuinely think that men approach women they don't know with no motive other than having a bit of a chat? And if you do you think that they approach other men just as often? If not- why not?

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 17:25

How on earth is it patronising to say that many SAHMs are in a financially vulnerable position??

whiskyowl · 18/10/2017 17:25

mittens - oh my word, I'm so sorry about your FIL. How awful for you, your DH and your MIL. Flowers

I do a bit of grief counselling (for free, charity thing) and one of the things that I find most upsetting is when women in couples who aren't retired lose a husband and really struggle to sort things out financially on top of the trauma of a sudden death. Some of them have never done any financial management at all, and it's incredibly scary for them to figure out where they stand. In some awful cases, they find themselves having to find work at the worst possible time. Your poor MIL.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 17:28

Whisky, I definitely don't have the patience for endlessly long board games! That's DH's territory in this house! :)

I'm wondering how some people met their partners if they don't ever like random men speaking to them.

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 17:28

Krytens- do you genuinely think that men approach women they don't know with no motive other than having a bit of a chat?

I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly capable of speaking to men without assuming it's because they want to do me.
Nor do I think that's the only reason they're ever going to speak to me.
Men and women can converse without one or the other automatically meaning it's got to be for a sexual reason.

Mittens1969 · 18/10/2017 17:29

I agree, bumbleymummy, people are naturally defensive of people they love. I felt incredibly uncomfortable at the suggestion that male violence was so pervasive, because of my lovely DH. But looking at my overall experience of men, the picture is so very different and hence the anger so many of us feel.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 17:31

You're not really answering the question. And I suspect you know you're not. Bur hey ho.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 17:32

Bert, Is there something wrong with a man approaching a woman because he finds her attractive and would like to start a conversation and maybe ask her out? Confused

humanGnomeProject · 18/10/2017 17:33

@pallisers

Yes, you've missed a few polls including YouGov's

here

As I said, it isn't about the dictionary definition which unthinking feminists like to trot out, it's about what the general population perceive feminism to be about.

"Do you believe in equality of the sexes? Yes? Then you're a feminist." is an inane and idiotic line which you just steered clear of.

People want equality but don't believe that current radical feminist movements which talk about "institutional oppression" and other nonsense is what is needed. 1 in 5 women see 'feminist' as an insult; this isn't the patriarchal media; it's toxic women who have labelled themselves as the mouthpieces of feminism.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 17:33

"I'm wondering how some people met their partners if they don't ever like random men speaking to them."
In all the places where it's entirely appropriate for strangers to speak to each other. Like-not in a deserted station at midnight.

Mittens1969 · 18/10/2017 17:34

Thank you, whiskyowl. Flowers It was a long time ago now, in 2003, but it changed our family forever. My MIL hadn’t worked for years, and had left the financial side of things entirely to her husband.

So yes, SAHMs can be very vulnerable.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 17:34

bumbley no, we're not going to agree. It's a shame though, it would have been nice to see each other's points of view just a little bit.

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 17:36

You're not really answering the question. And I suspect you know you're not. Bur hey ho

Confused I answered exactly what you asked. Are you stood there with your fingers in your ear singing "la la la, I'm not listening?"
bastardkitty · 18/10/2017 17:37

I agree with you OP.

I don’t think it’s subtle, I think it’s MRA’s pretending to be women

They’re not convincing, they just think they are - their aggression usually outs them

^ This and yes also the first post on your thread exemplifies the problem. I'm really sick of it and angry that MN have allowed it to grow and take hold.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2017 17:37

" this isn't the patriarchal media; it's toxic women who have labelled themselves as the mouthpieces of feminism."
Oh, I do think it's the patriarchal media a bit, don't you? Grin Oh and clever you to turn "toxic masculinity" round in such a novel way!

whiskyowl · 18/10/2017 17:44

human - but you ARE a feminist if you believe in equality of the sexes! There were people who didn't, in fact, through most of history that was the dominant view! And there are people who continue to believe that now.

Of course, there are many, many varieties of feminism - there are serious, deep, and passionately-argued differences between them. I am a feminist, I vehemently disagree with certain other types of feminism, including the one that prevails on Mumsnet's feminism boards. I deeply dislike the work of certain women writers in the tradition to the point that it enrages me to read it, and I've devoted considerable time and energy to debunking their arguments. I will, however, fight for the right of all women to have their differences and to argue them out!

What you are talking about, however, is popular perceptions of feminism. That's like the difference between astrophysics and people's perceptions of Mars. There are probably people whose first association with Mars is "little green men"! That does not mean that there ever has been any evidence of little green men up there, or that astrophysicists are sending probes up there to look for them. It's an old-fashioned, erroneous association that somehow persists. Of course, it's a problem for feminism - but it's been caused far more by male fear of womens' equality (and smears on feminists as smelly, ugly, lazy lesbians) than it ever was by the movement itself.

humanGnomeProject · 18/10/2017 17:44

No. I don't for a second think the patriarchal media has made feminism as self-destructive pit of vipers. For a start, I can't listen properly to anyone who talks about the patriarchy. I assume they're simply reading from a cue card. Believing in a conspiracy doesn't make it real.

I didn't mention toxic masculinity, did I?

You were certainly one of the "mouthpieces" I was referring to although you seem to be limited to threads on a parenting forum so mostly harmless.

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 17:45

I'm wondering how some people met their partners if they don't ever like random men speaking to them

Online? Work? Singles events? Through friends?

I personally met my husband when I was on a train carriage by myself at midnight and he told me I had nice tits and all his mates laughed.

That's not true, by the way.

whiskyowl · 18/10/2017 17:46

mittens - I've heard that story so many times, it's part of the reason I worry. So sorry for your loss.

KrytensNanobots · 18/10/2017 17:49

I'm really sick of it and angry that MN have allowed it to grow and take hold.

Sick and angry that Mumsnet is allowing people to express different opinions and not censoring those who think outside of the "approved thinking?"
That's ridiculous. Not a road I want to go down even if you do.

humanGnomeProject · 18/10/2017 17:50

@Whisky

"but you ARE a feminist if you believe in equality of the sexes!"

No. First and foremost I'm a geek / linguist. I'm a pragmatist and think that the modern meaning of feminist is so far removed from anything I want to be associated with, I'm a proud anti-feminist.

I don't believe the sexes are the same. I think there are inalienable differences between the sexes but I think we should all be given the same starting point in life. In some cases (education at the moment) females will 'win'. In some, men will. This is enjoying the benefits of the strength of individuals as opposed to having everything split down the middle because that's what you are forced to do.

In my business, I have more women in the traditionally male department and vice versa. This is because I ignore feminists and judge everyone on their worth.

bumbleymummy · 18/10/2017 17:51

Pumper, perhaps you would find it easier to see other people's point of view if you moved away from the sarcasm and patronising comments?

Pumperthepumper · 18/10/2017 17:54

I'm wondering how some people met their partners if they don't ever like random men speaking to them

This wasn't sarcasm? You were genuinely asking this question?

BaronessEllaSaturday · 18/10/2017 17:58

I'm wondering how some people met their partners if they don't ever like random men speaking to them

We met at school when we were 11. Still not a reason for someone to try to engage me in conversation when I am keeping myself to myself

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