I think the golden rule for men should be...

[brasty]

.

We shouldn't need a rule for how we engage with women any more than we don't need a rule telling us it's inappropriate to throw fresh dung at passers-by. What we do need is more in the way of meaningful sanctions against the harassers, pesterers, whistlers, demeaners and remark-passers.

Exactly this. Deal with the pesterers, call it out and punish them.

We shouldn't need a rule for how men engage with women
But it seems we do because, as a sex, they're a bloody menace

Actually, we all have rules of engagement in society. If people adhere to appropriate behaviour they don't need to be reminded of those rules. But too many don't behave appropriately.
Too many people drop litter so we all have to be reminded not to by street signs

But it seems we do because, as a sex, they're a bloody menace

No, see, not all of them are. Lots are, yes, but to tar an entire sex as "a bloody menace" is wrong.
That's just like saying "all women are whiny bitches."

Being a whiny bitch isn't a documented behaviour among women though , whereas being violent and/ or sexually aggressive is a known and well recorded trait among men. Not all men, but of men as a group

"No, see, not all of them are. Lots are, yes, but to tar an entire sex as "a bloody menace" is wrong.
That's just like saying "all women are whiny bitches.""

Of course not all of them are. But as a class or as a sex they are. And those that aren't generally don't do anything about calling out their fellow men on it.

If men really can't tell the difference between a social environment like a party, and the top deck of a bus or a street that you happen to be walking along at the same time as another person - and why it is appropriate and find to start conversations (or try to) with strangers at a party but not any old random place where people are busy, in transit, showing no interest in making conversation.... then these men should not be let out unaccompanied.

But kudos to Kryten for managing to shoehorn in a misogynistic remark

Yes of course there are times when anyone might need to approach a stranger in the street - for directions, or information, or help if it's an emergency. But, even then, if you are a man: if there are several strangers around don't approach the only unaccompanied woman first. If the only other person in sight is a woman on her own, keep further than grabbing distance from her, make it clear that you want directions to the station or whatever, and if she ignores you leave her alone.

But kudos to Kryten for managing to shoehorn in a misogynistic remark

Eh? Did I? Elaborate please, or are you just trying to goad?

“All women are whiny bitches”

I think is what’s being referred.

I don’t get how anyone male or female can think that harnessing women on the street for example. Have you seen any of the videos that were recorded showing this behavior?

It’s not just a ‘good morning how are you’ it’s full on disgusting talk about what they want to do to the woman. Some guys followed the women for ages down the street. Then as per usual if the women ignored them then it was the classic ‘ignorant bitch’ etc.

This is not acceptable behavior - please tell me how anyone can consider this normal?

I distinctly remember as a child going to school and getting shouted at out of cars / vans and on the road told to ‘smile’ - like what the fuck gives anyone the right to shout at a young girl in a derogatory way? I didn’t fully understand it when I was young. Was just embarrassed and wanted the ground to open up and swallow me.

Now looking at it the age group of these men - they were old, dirty fuckers

“All women are whiny bitches”

I think is what’s being referred.

Well, if people cared to actually read my post properly, they'd realise that I didn't say they were at all.
I said that saying all men were a menace is just as stupid as saying all women are bitches.

if people cared to actually read my post properly, they'd realise that I didn't say they were at all.

I don't mind men genuinely chatting. Today DS played with a little boy in the park and the dad and I had a chat about the weather and a local cinema. It wasn't flirty or uncomfortable.
Yesterday an old man on the metro chatted to me all the way up to town- about the weather, DS, DD, what he did when he worked, Newcastle, the metro. Just chat, I didn't mind at all.

Absolutely lulu same here

Exactly Lulu there is a difference between just having a general chat and someone trying to come onto you

I distinctly remember as a child going to school and getting shouted at out of cars / vans and on the road told to ‘smile’ - like what the fuck gives anyone the right to shout at a young girl in a derogatory way? I didn’t fully understand it when I was young. Was just embarrassed and wanted the ground to open up and swallow me.

This is spades.

Happened everywhere I went as a young teen. Especially in summer holidays if I happened to be wearing a strappy vest top or something. I used to ‘back chat’ the ones who could hear me, construction workers for example. I didn’t feel endangered or anything so when they’d say ‘smile love’ or something similar I used to reply with some cocky comment. I felt uncomfortable about being letched on but naively I gave them a gobby comment hoping they’d shut the fuck up haha.

I remember walking down the street on a busy road, must’ve been about 17. A car pulls up beside me as he had to stop at the lights. The driver wound his window down and asked me to get in his car. His mate was in the passenger seat. I said no thanks. He said ‘go on, please’. I said no again. He kept asking til eventually I told them both to fuck off. I clenched my fist in fear they might get out the car and try to attack me. Luckily the lights turned green and the had to drive on. That did scare me. What the fuck possessed them to do that??? As I teen, I found men in their 30s - 40s the main offenders. Bet most of them were married or had girlfriends too. Disgusting.

Happened everywhere I went as a young teen.

Started about 11 for me. Have a think about that everyone...

Ooookay, Rufus has resorted to replying in emoticons instead of actually expressing opinions.
Why can't people have alternative opinions any more without getting accused of "trolling across the boards" or grinny faces instead of actual debate (both to me.)
We're not all sheep, and "leave women alone, don't speak to them", well you don't speak for me. There's nothing wrong with actual chatting.
I don’t get how anyone male or female can think that harnessing women on the street for example.

No-one, anywhere, has said that harrassing women is acceptable. It absolutely isn't.

Me and my younger sister used to regularly get men yelling stuff out the windows of their cars at us as we walked to school - in school uniform.

that wasnt a reply kryten

It’s horrible. Makes you feel worthless and self-conscious at the same time. I think this stuff should be taught in schools that no, it’s not ok. The feeling it leaves you with is horrible. Makes me wonder what kind of sick freak takes an interest in young school-aged kids.

There's nothing wrong with actual chatting.

And no one has said THAT is wrong. The problem is that clearly a large chunk of the male population, and it is a large chunk for it to happen so much, can't do this.

They can't tell what subjects are fine, who they can talk to, what to do if someone doesn't want to talk to them, whether it is appropriate to sexually harass school children and how not to make women uncomfortable, scared and unhappy.

What is your solution to that? Because telling women off for objecting won't work.

that wasnt a reply kryten

You quoted me then did nothing but a grinny face. So clearly was a reply to me.