To not understand why people don't understand men cannot be raped by a woman?

[TurquoiseChevrotain]

I've read a lot whenever this comes up on here or elsewhere, that it's 'terrible' and such an outdated view. Why is it? Why can't people understand what rape is? Men can be sexually assaulted by women, but not raped.

Absolutely,

under the Sexual offense act 2003 rape is defined as:

(The offences in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 are crimes of basic intent - R v Lee Heard (CA) (2006))

Rape (section 1)

The elements of rape are:

(A) intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis;
(B) does not consent to the penetration, and
(A) does not reasonably believe that (B) consents
Penetration of the mouth is included.

Rape is still a crime of basic intent, and drunkenness is no defence.

Assault by penetration (section 2)

The elements of assault by penetration are:

A person (A) intentionally penetrates the vagina or anus of another person (B) with a part of their body or anything else:
The penetration is sexual
(B) does not consent to the penetration, and
(A) does not reasonably believe that (B) consents.
The meaning of sexual, consent, reasonable belief and the evidential and conclusive presumptions all apply to this offence.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/soa_2003_and_soa_1956/#a08

I didn’t know this until I studied law and read the sexual offences act. For most people they don’t happen to read it ie on the internet, in a newspaper so they don’t know.

Men can obviously be raped- by other men.

Presumably a woman who used to be a man can rape a man, as that woman would have a penis?

If someone has a penis, and has used that penis to rape someone, then they are a man, BigMumma.

There's a growing number of rapists, including those who have raped children, who then "come out" as women after arrest. i really resent seeing headlines of "woman convicted of rape", or "rapist moved to women's prison" when it's a man who used his penis to rape someone. And I can think of few things that would retraumatise someone more than being forced to refer to their rapist as "she".

(But sexual assault of any kind, whether it's classified as rape or not, should be prosecuted to the fulllest extent.)

going back quite a few years, there was a case of a woman think she imprisoned this man or something like that and she raped him it went to court and she was found guilty. He had sex against his will

@suzy2b she wouldn't have been done for rape

I think people do understand the difference in terms of the terminology. However, I think a man or woman that has been attacked sexually by having a large object violently penetrated into their anus would feel like they had been raped so the punishment should be the same. Plus being assaulted in this way, like rape, can cause serious medical issues not to mention the effect on mental health.

I wonder if it was something to do with the fact that a penis was the salient point, as you can impregnate a woman.

I agree that sexual assault, is too broad a term. Although sexual assault by penetration will carry the same sentence and is viewed equally seriously under the law.

A specific term for penetration with a penis needs to be ring fenced, and rape is the correct term. But change sexual assault with penetration into something that perhaps reflects the heinous nature of the crime. Something that carries as much negativity as the term rape.

Thank you lily

I know men can be raped by other men

I thought you were talking about men being raped by women....as thats what the thread is about (obviously it moves on)

And as your post wasnt referring to the sex

That piece you posted was the one i read...no wonder i was confused

Happens a lot

Agree with datun

I think the argument is backwards. Definitely people think "sexual assault" is less serious then "rape" when the it's a matter of legal semantics.
Also it doesnt help the belief that rape is a stranger holding you down with a gun to your head.
The much more common scenario is someone you know forcing you, and in that case I can see how a woman could be guilty (just not under the law) . We're talking about sick individuals "have sex with me or I'll assault the kids" .
I think it's the case that the law doesn't reflect society.
And for good measure I'll mention mothers who sexually abuse their children, in the hope someone knows they study's to back me up. I'm always shouted down because it isn't recorded because there aren't laws to reflect it.

Men can be raped by women, just not in UK law. If we lived in France (for instance) it would be classified as rape.

Just like women can be raped by their husbands, just not in Chinese law. In the UK it would be classified as rape.

A specific term for penetration with a penis needs to be ring fenced

Why? Is it worse for a woman to be penetrated with a penis than with anything else? It doesn't seem to be ringfenced in all countries and I don't think that is a bad thing.

The sex of the victim and perpetrator is irrelevant really.

I genuinely don’t understand why feminists would stick rigidly to the legal definition of rape rather than what rape is commonly believed to be meant. Sex without consent.

Would you tell a woman raped by her husband in 1980 it wasn’t really rape as it didn’t meet the legal definition?

I’m more concerned with why people insist on pretending that women raping men is common that definition women raping men as anything but rape.

I’m more concerned with why people insist on pretending that women raping men is common than defining women raping men as anything but rape.

As so many have said already, because 'rape' is used by laymen to mean 'unwanted sex'.

Because the idea that a penis is needed for ‘rape’ in the legal definition is bullshit. Forced sex should be the definition.

I didn’t know this until I studied law and read the sexual offences act. For most people they don’t happen to read it ie on the internet, in a newspaper so they don’t know

Exactly. I'm not a lawyer or a police officer etc so if someone said 'rape', I'd just think of some sort of a sexual act against another person's will. Similarly to one of the PP, 'assault' somehow sounds less serious and conjures up groping.

Today 13:02 SoupDragon

A specific term for penetration with a penis needs to be ring fenced

Why? Is it worse for a woman to be penetrated with a penis than with anything else? It doesn't seem to be ringfenced in all countries and I don't think that is a bad thing.

The sex of the victim and perpetrator is irrelevant really.

Just in terms of the legal ramifications. Rape with a penis can result in pregnancy. So there needs to be a specific term for that specific act.

And no, unwanted penetration using anything is all as appalling as each other. And obviously, certain objects are going to cause more horrendous damage.

I don't know how the law works in terms of the object used. You would've thought, for instance that the damage caused would be reflected. But as I said, I don't know if there are different terms for this.

Rape with a penis can result in pregnancy. So there needs to be a specific term for that specific act.

So if a man with a vasectomy sticks his penis in a woman it’s not rape then.

Or if any man sticks it in a male or female’s anus.

Yes it is rape because it involves a penis.

If a man rapes a woman, he is forcing her to have sex, and could be subjecting her to the risk of pregnancy.

So you need to word that means penetration with a penis that could result in pregnancy.

If you want another word that says penetration with a penis that might not result in pregnancy, then fine.

We should be broadening the definition of rape not telling women who were raped by an object they can’t call it rape. Because the law defines it differently and the laws were all written by women and the judges who try cases all women.

I agree that the word rape carries much more negative connotations. But I still think you need a specific term that involves a penis.

I suspect, that if you change the words around, you will still end up with the same problem. Because the most common form of this crime is a man using his penis to forcibly penetrate.