To not understand why people don't understand men cannot be raped by a woman?

[TurquoiseChevrotain]

I've read a lot whenever this comes up on here or elsewhere, that it's 'terrible' and such an outdated view. Why is it? Why can't people understand what rape is? Men can be sexually assaulted by women, but not raped.

Havingahorridtime

I can't be the only one whose heart lurched at your post. I'm sure many of the women here had a fleeting mental image of rescuing that poor girl. And a jagged, violent reaction to those men. The sadism required to convince a child that she is pregnant in order to shut her up, is beyond comprehension.

I feel very emotional that you haven't spoken about this in real life.

It's not the place of someone like me on an anonymous forum to say anything, but if you ever felt the need to off load anonymously, you can message me.

Am I a mother to lots of sons? Yes, and I’m teaching them to be future rapists, obv. In my DDs service.

I agree with this from a pp.

Would you tell a woman raped by her husband in 1980 it wasn’t really rape as it didn’t meet the legal definition?

Just because something doesn't exactly fit a legal definition, it doesn't mean it isn't used as common terminology in day to day life.

As for all the man haters, please have some sympathy for all the boys and men who have been raped. There are far more of them than anyone would ever realise as it wasn't ever talked about and there wasn't any way for most of them to report it.

I would expect if it was possible to get any kind of statistics, that in the male population as a whole rapists are more of a minority than rape victims. The majority of men are neither. Some men are loving husbands brothers fathers of friends of female victims. Not all men are rapists.

Why is one of these sentences acceptable and one not? Both equally offensive. You sound like a bunch of miserable, bitter harridans

How is a factually correct statement offensive? The majority of rapists/sex offenders ARE Male.

Mom- you did call everyone else "miserable bitter harridans"!

Could you explain your position, please? It's difficult to discuss it otherwise...

MomToWedThorFriday

What exactly is your problem? Feminists openly acknowledge that women can be violent, because it's demonstrably true.

And if women committed 50% of sexually violent crime, we might be having a different conversation. But they don't.

How would you like a the conversation to go? What is your desired outcome?

I’m a mother to a son, and a daughter. I’ll be making extra effort to teach him to respect women seeing as the entire world is trying to teach him the opposite. Damage limitation so to speak.

And cut the dramatics with ‘I’m raising a rapist’. No one said that.

I get that the 96% figure makes people uncomfortable because we do attribute it to the men we know and love and think it’s men just like them. But why does it offend you exactly? I love the men in my life, I also accept they’re part of class of people who oppress women.

Someone put on a thread once a great analogy about the ‘women do it too’ point. It’s like a building being on fire, but a small patch of flowers at the front is also on fire. The fireman concentrates on putting out the flower fire and says “look at these fucking flowers out to cause trouble”.

FWIW if people don’t engage with women about rape culture, it’s probably because they hate women. Not because women are pointing out facts

As for all the man haters, please have some sympathy for all the boys and men who have been raped.

The majority of men and boys who have been raped have been raped by men. Does that offend you as well? Or is it only when we talk about women being raped that pointing that out is offensive?

*Just because something doesn't exactly fit a legal definition, it doesn't mean it isn't used as common terminology in day to day life.

As for all the man haters, please have some sympathy for all the boys and men who have been raped. There are far more of them than anyone would ever realise as it wasn't ever talked about and there wasn't any way for most of them to report it.*

This.

Good Lord. What feminist doesn't have sympathy for boys who are raped. By men. Also boys who are assaulted by women, of course.

What planet do you live on?

And who are the ‘man haters’?

Pointing out that the majority of sex offenders are men doesn’t make someone a man hater FFS.

As for all the man haters, please have some sympathy for all the boys and men who have been raped

Who is hating men? The people pointing out facts. Don’t be silly, that’s just stating facts.

And who said they didn’t sympathise with male rape victims?

These threads are hard work, they always go the same way from the apologists

• not all men rape
• women commit crimes too
• man haters!
• you’re bitter it’s no wonder no one listens to you
• I have sons!
• I’m OBVIOUSLY raising a rapist

Bingo!

How about engaging in debate instead?

Not and Mom why don’t you like people pointing out that 96% of sexual offenders are male? I’d genuinely like to know

I don't have a problem with the definition. I do have a problem with living in a society that still needs the definition. It's a sad fact that I am part of that problem. Rape will only cease to be a hate crime by us against women when we stop raping 85000 women every year. When those staggering numbers fall and stay low for so long that women stop fearing us then maybe we can have 'equality' in rape.

So no compared to our shame, a four letter word is the least of my worries.

That's good to know newdaddie.

These conversations frequently get very difficult, because people get defensive. Often the mothers of sons, or men.

But recognising a problem should not be seen as a unilateral judgement.

Male violence is a huge problem. Male sexual violence also. Recognising it and addressing it is necessary.

It's not, and never has been an indictment on all men.

Really interesting article on this very subject
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/09/breaking-wall-secrecy-sexual-abuse-men-women

"As for all the man haters, please have some sympathy for all the boys and men who have been raped"

Please can you show where there has been any a) man hating, and b) any lack of sympathy for men and boys who have been raped.

As for all the man haters, please have some sympathy for all the boys and men who have been raped.

No one on here hates men

Everyone has sympathy for anyone who is raped

I wish people would stop making stuff up

How the hell is it not rape if a man or a woman is subjected to a forced penetration? It might legally be defined by sexual assault by penetration but I believe it should be defined as rape. The two crimes may carry the same maximum sentence but max sentence is rarely used. The sentencing range for rape is 4-19 years. For assault by penetration it ranges from community order to 19 years. That is wrong!

Link to sentencing guidelines
www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Final_Sexual_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_content_web1.pdf

Why is one of these sentences acceptable and one not? Both equally offensive. You sound like a bunch of miserable, bitter harridans

I’m none of those things, I also don’t dislike men, I have more men in my household than I do women.

But I am a woman who has spent a significant amount of her life and almost all her adult life working with some of the most serious outcomes resulting from male violence and rape, I’ve spent hours in the middle of the night for decades assisting victims of serious violence and rape I’ve spent more of my life protecting women from male violence than I have spent doing almost anything else.

I have campaigned for law changes consulted on policy bills been instrumental in making the current protections we have more acessable to women who need them and am personally responsible for thousands of women and children living in safety away from their abuser.

So you can fuck off with your ridiculous comments that are nothing other than words designed to minimise harm suffered by women because of men.

Would it help if we added some context to explain why rape became a specific crime?
Crimes including rape and child sex abuse used to be treated as sex crimes, not acts of violence. They were lumped all together in 'vice' along with prostitution and pornography. They were seen as being crimes against lesser members of society and not very serious. For decades, victims were mishandled by the police and courts, and there were some very dodgy rulings in court cases.
It took decades of campaigning to get the entire legal system to take these crimes seriously, to collect evidence from victims in a proper way, and to present that evidence in court without destroying the character of the victim.

If you are outraged on behalf of men its because you dont know or care how bad things were when they were the only voices heard; and because you dont think 'sexual assault' is a serious crime.

The sentencing range for rape is 4-19 years. For assault by penetration it ranges from community order to 19 years. That is wrong!

Campaign for better sentencing then. Seems like the obvious solution to me.

Yes i forgot to mention it but yes the minimum sentence is different aka you convicted or rape you are sentenced to minium of 4 years you commit sexaul assault its not automatically a prison sentence WHICH for the more serious assaults is wrong.

While keep rape the same how about dropping bum pinching / breast touching unwanted kissing out of sexaul assault legal terminology and rebeand these lesser versons something else so the minimum sentence can be the same as rape because at the moment it is stupid that sexaul assaut covers such a wide spectrum of crimes.

Forced sex is not on the same level as unwanted physically attention and should not be seen as such.

It is so fucking annoying when people fly in, say "you're all man hating, miserable bitter harridans" and fly out again without engaging in the discussion! Why do they do that?????