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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If a new referendum on Brexit was announced..

582 replies

bbcessex · 11/10/2017 07:51

Would you be up in arms about that?
Discussing last night.. I think given the margins in the last vote and the (being charitable) confusion and uncertainty over the Brexit plans, a new referendum would generally be accepted.

DH (remainer) thinks a re-vote is not constitutional & would cause uproar (amongst all).

Who is unreasonable ?

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 11/10/2017 17:59

M4

Its only been 20 minutes

Give her a chance

lottieandmia · 11/10/2017 18:02

Having read those three reasons I’m inclined to think that some leavers can’t see the bigger picture.

Sandycarrots · 11/10/2017 18:04

Crackednips >"you and I could argue and counter argue, all kinds of possible scenarios and outcomes. Truth is: no one can see into the future and in my view, the regaining of our sovereignty will be well worth any struggle."

Yes, that's fine but as a very strong believer in the EU, I think Project Fear was the most pathetic game played by, frankly, uncaring UK politicians thinking only of their own careers. The reality is that with sterling down 20% on the year, and job losses quietly growing in the background (no one reports these but they happen week on week), again we are being misled by our politicians and the newspapers who seem incapable of giving a balanced view.

(Incidentally there are already many instances of businesses moving from the UK and the full economic effects of Brexit have not been felt yet because until March 2019 we are still fully paid up members of the EU!) For more information, see FT Brexit business impact tracker.

So I agree with you that if you and the significant majority of the UK electorate are happy to trade an immediate 20% reduction in the value of our economy, together with the uncertainty as to what will happen in a 3-5 yr horizon (because only then we really know what the value of EU membership was to the UK economy) then absolutely fine!

The point is that too many people are imagining that they will get increased prosperity, increased wealth and can supposedly "take back control" when there is very considerable risk that potentially, we will have a ten year period of considerable economic stress (reduced standards of living). Do we want to take this risk in exchange for very few, as yet unknown, potential benefits?

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:04

Sadly I can’t conduct a study to see why most people voted leave because by now most of them will wish they hadn’t

Yeah, that's not true is it. Not at all.

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:06

Having read those three reasons I’m inclined to think that some leavers can’t see the bigger picture.

I just gave the 3 I was asked for, I have plenty, plenty more. It's remainers who can't see the bigger picture, they're willing to throw themselves at the feet of and undemocratic totalitarian organisation that gives zero fucks about them.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/10/2017 18:07

Sadly I can’t conduct a study to see why most people voted leave because by now most of them will wish they hadn’t.

Will they?
Do you have concrete proof of this?

Or is it just another one of your spurious ‘facts’ (like ‘most’ people voting because the NHS is strained, or ‘a lot of people voted Leave because they are racist’)?

gluteustothemaximus · 11/10/2017 18:10

Last year, the night before the vote, I took to mumsnet because I was really worried we would vote to leave.

I came away feeling very reassured, as wise MNetters said that the referendum is advisory only. Phew, I thought.

And yet here we are full steam ahead, regardless of a deal, or no deal.

There won’t be a deal BTW. And we’ve got the 1p in our box.

WitchesHatRim · 11/10/2017 18:12

Sadly I can’t conduct a study to see why most people voted leave because by now most of them will wish they hadn’t.

Proof please.

Moussemoose · 11/10/2017 18:22

M4Dad

undemocratic totalitarian organisation

Unfortunately it is this kind of hyperbolic nonsense that gives these debates a bad.

You might not like the structure of the EU, but it is made up of democratically elected governments and has a democratically elected Parliament. The Commission is made up of the equivalent of civil servants - just like in the majority of Democratic countries.

Moussemoose · 11/10/2017 18:23

Bad name - obvs

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:25

Moosse

I asked this question earlier but didn't get a reply.

Say the EU introduce a law or a policy that a lot of people don't like. How do we hold them to account for that policy? Short answer is, we can't. They are not democratically responsible for their actions.

Sandycarrots · 11/10/2017 18:26

Same here DearLittleFlo

RubMyRhubarb · 11/10/2017 18:27

because by now most of them will wish they hadn’t

Citation(s) please.

I don’t care how outrageous you think my posts are

Assuming that was directed at me, since you haven't indicated it's to anyone else... I didn't call you or your posts outrageous.

And I am entitled to that opinion

100%.

It's my opinion that your opinion sucks. See where this gets us? Nowhere. You make many an assertion and haven't (as yet, I'm not impatient) backed it up with anything other than "it's wot me finks so tiz totally factz"

I will wait, there is no rush to reply. But next time you do, particularly if you're going to address me specifically, please provide citations.

Thank you

Moussemoose · 11/10/2017 18:29

The EU is made up of democratically elected governments. Decisions are made by these governments they represent us. This is representative democracy.

The EU Parliament has significantly more checks and balances than the UK Parliament.

This is representative democracy at work.

arethereanyleftatall · 11/10/2017 18:31

'By now most leave voters would wish they hadnt'

Incorrect. I'd vote leave again.

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:31

Could you answer my question please, Moussee?

Say the EU introduce a law or a policy that a lot of people don't like. How do we hold them to account for that policy? Short answer is, we can't. They are not democratically responsible for their actions

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:36

Basically the EU has been designed to ensure it can do almost what ever it wants.

It stated recently it want's a closer political union - that means it wants more power for them and less power for the nation states that comprise the EU.

There is no way on this earth anyone can convince me that this is a good thing. If YOU think this is a good thing please tell me why.

Moussemoose · 11/10/2017 18:38

M4Dad

It is,a question that demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the EU. I was politely trying to explain in general terms.

The Council is made up of democratically elected governments - held to account by ..........elections.

If legislation comes from the EU Parliament it would be held to account through..........elections.

Please ask a sensible question.

engineersthumb · 11/10/2017 18:38

M4 your "reasons" lack any creditability and don't really deserve an answer!

The EU is fundamentally answerable to the international electorate - but this could be improved from within the EU.

The treatment of greece has been shabby but we could have done more but chose not to. Also we have more influence on EU policy from within the EU than outside it.

The nation state? I assume you mean lack of integration - exactly what caused the Greece problem!

Moussemoose · 11/10/2017 18:40

M4Dad

When you refer to 'the EU' or 'it' which institution are you specifically referring to?

Just to clarify.

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:42

M4 your "reasons" lack any creditability and don't really deserve an answer

Nothing personal but I don't think you're up to my standard on debating the EU.

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:44

When you refer to 'the EU' or 'it' which institution are you specifically referring to

The Commission, the Council and the Parliament.

engineersthumb · 11/10/2017 18:45

M4
Your standard being ill informed daily mail rhetoric?

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 18:47

The treatment of greece has been shabby

Laughs out loud.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/10/2017 18:49

If there was a second referendum I would be interested in two things.

1/ if either side would tell the truth/not rely on scaremongering
and
2/ if any apathetic voters actual got off their arses to vote.

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