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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If a new referendum on Brexit was announced..

582 replies

bbcessex · 11/10/2017 07:51

Would you be up in arms about that?
Discussing last night.. I think given the margins in the last vote and the (being charitable) confusion and uncertainty over the Brexit plans, a new referendum would generally be accepted.

DH (remainer) thinks a re-vote is not constitutional & would cause uproar (amongst all).

Who is unreasonable ?

OP posts:
WitchesHatRim · 11/10/2017 17:08

I don’t want the UK destroyed for my children because people are racists. And I do think that is why a lot of people voted leave.

Sweeping statements again that help no one. one for the bingo card

lottieandmia · 11/10/2017 17:10

It’s not a sweeping statement - it’s the truth. And it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

I’ll bet you anything that if free movement was guaranteed to stay the same from the beginning many people would not have voted leave.

RubMyRhubarb · 11/10/2017 17:11

Sweeping statements again that help no one

Yup! The only reason I voted leave is I'm a bigoted racist that wants to destroy the UK for future generations.

Oh and I'm incredibly thick and have no idea what I voted for, of course. Mustn't forget that bit.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/10/2017 17:12

I don’t want the UK destroyed for my children because people are racists. And I do think that is why a lot of people voted leave.

🙄
It always comes back to this.
Would it kill you (and others) to apply any further critical thought to the myriad reasons people voted to leave?

RubMyRhubarb · 11/10/2017 17:13

I’ll bet you anything

Well that's some rock hard indisputable data right there, folks.

Sandycarrots · 11/10/2017 17:14

Crackednips (in response to your post 16:04) (love the nn btw Smile)

Can't keep up with the pace of this thread!

Dashing - but fwiw - of course, nothing is certain

But what seems to be clear is that there is a strong desire over here in continental Europe that the EU continues …

It makes no sense for the UK to think that post Brexit we will not be competing against the EU …..

There is a strange parallel in reverse to the history of the UK not wanting to join the EEC in the 1950s then realising that the EU made lots of economic sense …. And rushing to get on board in the 60s.

We are now removing ourselves from the economic benefits of the EU (and no one has spent much time quantifying these – although when Catalonia looked like leaving Spain and the EU it was quickly reported in the press that it would loose 25% of its GDP …..)

So presumably there is agreement that leaving the EU will result in an economic loss for the UK – and then the question is how long before we can recover this loss through new trading opportunities.

Given that we have full international rights to trade with all of these third countries today ….. and the EU gives us access to something around 240 preferential trade agreements with third countries ….. how realistic is it to suppose that we can suddenly boost our international trade to make up the emerging gap on trade with the EU ?

This points to risk … risk that the cost of Brexit will be felt not for two years but a decade or more …. And that to recover the lost trade during this period …. Will take a further long period of time.

All fine if we all agree that this will be worth it …. Independence should not be calculated on money terms alone.

However the pathetic lies being told to us now that there will be no cost to UK (by Brexiters and Remainers alike) … just the sunlit uplands of free trade …. does no one any good at all.

It creates the potential for a huge backlash in the near future as people come to realise that they have been misled … by their own politicians.

lottieandmia · 11/10/2017 17:15

‘Would it kill you (and others) to apply any further critical thought to the myriad reasons people voted to leave?’

Most people (not all) who voted leave did so because they thought the NHS is strained by high numbers of immigrants. There is a great deal of hostility in the UK towards Eastern European immigrants. Perhaps you don’t want to accept it but I know it’s the truth.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 11/10/2017 17:24

Most people (not all) who voted leave did so because they thought the NHS is strained by high numbers of immigrants. There is a great deal of hostility in the UK towards Eastern European immigrants. Perhaps you don’t want to accept it but I know it’s the truth.

You know it’s ‘the truth’?

Super.

Do post a link to the peer reviewed research that tells of this ‘truth’ that “most people who voted leave did so because they thought the NHS is strained by high numbers of immigrants”.

Many thanks.

BertrandRussell · 11/10/2017 17:26

So why did you vote Leave?

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 17:28

Most people (not all) who voted leave did so because they thought the NHS is strained by high numbers of immigrants. There is a great deal of hostility in the UK towards Eastern European immigrants. Perhaps you don’t want to accept it but I know it’s the truth

Wait, what? Fair play, there have been some pretty outrageous posts today but that's right up there with the best of them.

RubMyRhubarb · 11/10/2017 17:30

but I know it’s the truth

Yet more concrete evidence that leave voters are utterly wrong! And thick, I'm trying hard not to forget thick.

Crackednips · 11/10/2017 17:36

On the subject of pathetic lies - I would argue that Project Fear's

The imminent need for an emergency budget.
The exodus of businesses.
The drying up up inward investment.
The 800,000 jobs which will definitely lost within a few months,
Household bills skyrocketing.
Rampant inflation and a total collapse of sterling. All qualify as just that...

I don't believe I've heard anybody suggest that it won't be tough and that we face some real challenges.

You and I could argue and counter argue, all kinds of possible scenarios and outcomes. Truth is: no one can see into the future and in my view, the regaining of our sovereignty will be well worth any struggle.

BertrandRussell · 11/10/2017 17:37

So here's your opportunity to put the rumors to bed for ever.

Why did you all vote Leave? How about 3 reasons each?

Dearlittleflo · 11/10/2017 17:40

Crackednps, sorry to be so slow responding- have been in meetings.

The UK could alter tax rates to help this. There's no EU trade deal with China and their goods currently have tariffs applied. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of Chinese made goods in our shops though! Also Non-tariff barriers are not our biggest barrier because we already meet EU reg's.

This stuff all depends on whether we have a deal. Meeting EU regs (reg equ.) could be a helpful factor in agreeing a deal but it's irrelevant in a non-deal outcome, where we'll simply be a third country and treated in the same way as any other third country. If we do agree a deal based on reg equ, we then have to stay compliant with (changing) EU law, which makes a bit of a mockery of the vote to leave and "take back control"- we'll need to import relevant EU law in any event without any say over it.

We could cut corporation tax to make us more attractive as a location for FDI in a no-deal outcome but not if we have a deal (EU has already indicated that it wouldn't agree on this basis). Also corporation tax isn't relevant to people trading with (rather than in) UK- for that we'd need to cut tariffs (basically Singapore model with all the negatives that involves)

The fact that the NHS is so heavily reliant on foreign nurses is a testament to the long-term failure of management and gov in not doing anything to produce a domestic supply of people, not a problem caused by Brexit. I'm pretty sure anyone wishing to come here to do nursing can fill in a form.

I agree with the first bit of this 100% but fail to see how leaving the EU will solve the problem. I'm sure the second bit is right too to an extent- wasn't the government talking about 5y visas recently? But what nurse would choose to come to the UK in those circs? People come to start a new life, not to stay for 5y, be resented by the Brits for being immigrants and then get kicked out at the end. Not at all equivalent to FoM.

We all worry about what might or might not happen in the future, but don't forget disaster was predicted for immediately after the vote

Well, some might say that a 15% drop in the value of the £ was disastrous enough and we're already seeing job losses. I think the pound will go through the floor in the event of no deal. It's also a massive crisis for us in terms of international reputation and standing and a huge loss of influence.

As for the the brain drain..Presumably all these clever people fleeing are on the same flights as all the celeb's and luminaries who said they would leave the country if we left the EU?

Sorry, this part of your response really annoyed me. The UK is a centre of excellence for research and relies hugely on EU research funding. When that funding goes, the scientists and others whose work is affected can either give up or move. There isn't any other option. UK-based scientists are already been dropped from collaborations on the basis that it might harm funding prospects for them to be involved- I have friends in exactly this position. These people aren't stropping off and your description was way off the mark.

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 17:41

How about 3 reasons each

  1. I believe the EU is not democratically responsible for it's actions.
  1. Having seen the way it has treated Greece I would prefer not to be a part of it.
  1. It wants to erode the Nation state forever.
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 11/10/2017 17:43

It's obvious the leavers care more about democracy than remainers and I suggest to you that if remain had won there would have been no more said about it

Hahahhahahahahaha

Oh god Grin

Fuck me thats funny

Dearlittleflo · 11/10/2017 17:45

Sorry that was such an epic Smile Think that's me done on this thread- I generally try to avoid the Brexit threads as I find them so frustrating and worrying.

Crackednips · 11/10/2017 17:48

Dearlittleflo fair points... I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Its home time.

Moussemoose · 11/10/2017 17:49

The constitutional illiteracy on these threads is astounding.

In the UK Parliament is sovereign. That is how our representative democracy works.

You might not like it, or agree with it, but that is the case.

'Democracy' is not one thing that can only be expressed one way.

Crackednips · 11/10/2017 17:50

Bertrand I much prefer to keep you guessing..

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 11/10/2017 17:52

cracked

Do yiu not have three reasons ?

I only had one really

Concerns about the economy

Fffion · 11/10/2017 17:54

I'd love a new referendum. I don't really care about it being embarrassing.

engineersthumb · 11/10/2017 17:55

I think it's right to have a referendum on the proposed deal. People can then vote on te most up to date information. If you can't be bothered to vote twice I really have no sympathy with you at all. We've voted once on poor information let's have a vote on more detailed information now. No engineering project goes into exicution phase after a preliminary design review, it goes through multiple design reviews as the information matures. Why should an incredibly important descion like exit be decided on a one off review on preliminary information?

M4Dad · 11/10/2017 17:56

Bertrand,

I gave you 3 reasons, the least you could do would be to respond.

lottieandmia · 11/10/2017 17:57

Well Rub. Sadly I can’t conduct a study to see why most people voted leave because by now most of them will wish they hadn’t.

What I do know is the reasons I’ve been given by ignorant acquaintances.

I don’t care how outrageous you think my posts are. The situation is what it is. It’s a mess and not one good thing will amount from Brexit imo. And I am entitled to that opinion.

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