To ask why my daughter is being bullied

[CallingPeopleACuntOnFb]

She is 8, year 4.

She has been bullied on and off by different children for about 3 years

She is averagely pretty (I’m saying that because nothing stands out about her, ie very beautiful or very unattractive). She’s average height, very slim, reasonably bright and always clean, nice hair, the “right” School bag / trainers etc

Most importantly she’s sweet and kind and hasn’t got a nasty bone in her body. She does have friends but only a handful. (Although they are lovely little girls and seem to love dd)

After yet another visit to the school I’ve just had enough. I want to know WHY?? Why is she being picked on ?? I just don’t understand it....I feel like there is something “wrong” with her that I’m not seeing 😔

I was badly bullied in years 5 and 6, so aged 9-11. I am 36 years old now and I am still affected by what happened to me then. If people are nice to me and want to be my friend, I can't quite trust it, I am always waiting for it to be a joke at my expense. I fuck up some friendships because I still think if I contact people, show that I want to be involved with them, etc, they will hate that because who would want to be around me... which of course means I come across sometimes as not wanting to be their friend. My self esteem is a joke. It's still a battle not to tell myself "you're a twat, no one likes you, no one ever has, no one ever will", and a battle I only win half the time.

I name changed to make this post because even on this anonymous forum where no one knows and no one cares, I don't want to be mocked by people who think it's funny that I am still messed up by bullying which took place over a quarter of a fucking century ago. Even though no one likely would laugh. That's what bullying has done to me. It taught me that I am an unlikable figure of fun who will always be looked down on and doesn't deserve anything else. Unreasonable? Paranoid? Sure, but those are the scars it leaves.

Bullying is a relationship -a relationship in which one person is powerful and the other person isn't. For the relationship to exist, the bullied person has to accept their role and play it - they have to submit to the bully's power. If the bullied person refuses to engage then the relationship doesn't exist and the bully will just look like an idiot talking to someone who doesn't even notice them.

I'm glad- genuinely, not snarkily- glad that this is true for the pp who wrote it, and that s/he feels she was able to not let herself be bullied. But oh, if people only knew how much worse that makes those of us whose experiences were different feel. Not only was I bullied, not only am I such a loser that I am still messed up by it after many, many years, but it was my fault because I let it happen?

OP

I can recommend a day course run by Kidscape for parents and child, called Zap

Your DD is being bullied because some children are bullying her. That's it.

There is nothing wrong with her and I think you are searching for it because you still feel the shame of having been bullied. IME the kindest people were bullied

Bullies bully because deep down they want to feel powerful and because they cannot cope with their own bad emotions so they throw them onto someone else. They are the people with something 'wrong' with them.

Nevergotoverthebulling I've cried reading that.

I can totally relate. I have no idea why I was bullied in high school even my "friends" used to bully me. I think it's because I was a little odd. I would/still do see things in ways others don't. Of course once your different that's it. Teachers were no better. I sat in English once while a whole song (with chorus) was made up about me and sung by everyone.Teacher did nothing.
That was what broke me. Tbh I don't think I've ever recovered.
It carried on into my work life where I've been humiliated and bullied (as witnessed by others who said they would back me in a complaint) by my boss. I didn't.

I never stick up for myself and I have 0 self esteem and very few friends because of it.

^ll the Mums reading this thread: do you work with your children to ensure that they do not ever behave like bullies or stand by and watch others? Do you teach your kids to accept (and celebrate) other kids who are different to the norm, appreciate kids who are kind, etc., etc.
As parents we have to take responsibility for how our offspring behave - sadly I feel that not enough parents do so.^

IME as a mum X3 and children in primary school very, very few mothers do this. sadly even the nicest mums (don't know the dads much) are completely preoccupied with their own children, especially in 'naice' areas. I commented on this to dh yesterday mots women at dc' school are more than happy to bitch gossip about other mums or tehr children's class mates without an ounce of self awareness. Most are stuck with their perspective and have a hard time seeing things from somebody else's PoV.

Also most mums only care for their won children's well being and very little or not at all about their dc's friends. Completely self absorbed

I do mainly care about my own dcs, yes. I want them to be nice people but it isn't their job to make absolutely everyone in their class happy. I think you have to be careful with girls that you do make them realise that their own sense of self is important. They are not always there to be the carers. Boys rarely get expected to be nice to absolutely everyone.

frequency "When I'd advise her to stand up for herself, she'd get upset and tell me she didn't want to say anything nasty back in case it upset the bullies confused To this day, she still shouts at me if I say anything negative about the kids bullying her"

From the perspective of a kid who was bullied, i doubt the reason she didn't want to say anything was to not upset the bullies, it was probably due to fear of what they'd do. It's less humiliating to pretend to rise above it and let it go than to admit you're scared of what might happen. I also doubt she shouts at you out of a sense of protecting their feelings, more out of how deeply uncomfortable and upsetting it is to have it pointed out that people bullied and humiliated you and got away with it. Nobody wants to be reminded of that. She probably shouts to get you to stop reminding her and bringing back all of those horrible feelings. Again, it's easier to pretend it's out of compassion than acknowledge how much it destroyed you.

I turned the other cheek a lot. Pretending it was because I felt sorry for her. Nothing could have been further from the truth, I was afraid of her and just wanted to keep my head down to stop it getting worse. And I didn't tell a soul as I'd have hated anyone bringing it up and reminding me how weak I was.

Never and blue - same here. I am tearing up reading your accounts.

I spent much of year 11 hiding in the loos on break and lunch. Class bitch had decided I smelt "fishy" and enlisted the class (the boys weren't interested only the girls) to tell me that I stank of fish - EVERY SINGLE DAY. It got so bad that I used to take two pairs of pants and baby wipes into school with me - on first break I'd change and also at lunch.

I was 15 for crying out loud. There was nothing wrong with me.

My nickname was trout for seven months. The day my form tutor called me it was the day I went to the head teacher. Everyone got a bollocking but it carried on - just whispers instead of being so overt.

It's preposterous, but I still carry wipes (andrex ones) and clean underwear in my bag as an adult and it has affected my sex life because I'm convinced I smell like a trawler.

I don't. I know I don't. But what if I do?

Your daughter is lucky she has you as a mother. I didn't tell mine (we dont have a close bond) and just put up with it. The school never told my parents.

I hope things work out and I feel for your daughter op

She probably shouts to get you to stop reminding her and bringing back all of those horrible feelings. Again, it's easier to pretend it's out of compassion than acknowledge how much it destroyed you

I actually only comment on them when she brings them up, i.e her: X was a dick to me today me: is that the one with the massive head who looks like Brain from Pinky and the Brain? her: stop being mean about him. He can't help having a massive head etc. but the rest of it, you probably have a point.

there are generally three reasons children get bullied according to most teachers:

Well these teachers are WRONG

Kids get bullied because teacher turn a blind eye - they don't enforce the dont bullying policy - they don't call parents into school - they don't teach kids to stand up for themselves or each other - they encourage kids keep quite and not tell tales - they don't centrally report bullying - they don't demand dinner staff log playground issues

Why is she bullied? Because they allow her to be

Isobel - advise for you and your DD

Role play, make it loud and forceful

'Mive away from me'
'You're being mean'
'Stop annoying me'
'Go away'

She doesn't have to be nasty back to stop them being horrible

So many of these accounts strike a chord with me. I moved house and changed schools in year 6. I found it hard to make friends at my new school and when I started secondary school in year 7 I was bullied almost straight away. I think it has to do with a lack of confidence, plus I was absolutely desperate to please people and 'fit in' after struggling to make friends in year 6. I think the bullies could sense it as there was nothing else that would single me out.
I was bullied on and off all through secondary school and it affected me for a long time afterwards. Like some previous posters I found it hard to trust people and was suspicious when people were friendly towards me.
Now I'm much older I am finally confident to be myself and have secure friendships but I really wish I could have had that confidence when I was younger.

Sometimes people can be picked on because they're seen as being a bit too perfect. I used to have a girl in my high school who developed faster physically, was smart and lovely. We all ended up picking on her because we were jealous. Have you explored this as a possibility?

op would you not consider self defence classes as they do work wonders for self esteem

"I do mainly care about my own dcs, yes. I want them to be nice people but it isn't their job to make absolutely everyone in their class happy. I think you have to be careful with girls that you do make them realise that their own sense of self is important. They are not always there to be the carers. Boys rarely get expected to be nice to absolutely everyone."

This isn't about boys or girls, neither the mums of boys or girls care one bit about the wellbeing of other children. And where di I say that they have to make everyone happy?

It's not about teaching kids to be carers for their classmates (?) or letting others get away with mean things. It's about teaching your child to be courteous and not needlessly unkind. It's about recognising that your child is not more important or worth of a dignified experience then mine.

If you can live with yourself being totally self absorbed that's fine just remember that if I teach my child to not be mean your child may well benefit from it.

Ah I see frequency. I didn't realise she was still having to be around the bullies. Maybe she's uncomfortable with mocking someone else's appearance now she knows what it's like to be the subject of it? I guess if I were dealing with a kid who'd been bullied and discussing the bullies I'd want to model discussing what was awful about their behaviour, not pick on their appearance as it might be confusing that it's bad to bully someone but okay to joke about their appearance behind their back? She sounds like she has a very kind soul.

I'm the same as many of you, have had lifelong effects on my self esteem and life chances.

I do agree with Sparrowhawk though, I do think that it's a power relationship/dynamic between the bullied and bully, I don't think you can look at an individual in isolation and determine that they are either a bully or vulnerable to bullying. I think somehow there's a power gradient between the bullies and bullied. Bullies have high superficial self esteem, ie cocky and dominance seeking; the bullied are shyer, nicer, more modest, unassuming etc. Bullies seek to gain power and kudos through their behaviour, and the bullied fall into a self esteem vicious cycle wherein each instance of bullying diminishes their self esteem further, which the bullies pick up on.

I think it may be useful to look at it from a transactional analysis pov in psychology, ie "I'm (not) ok, you're not ok" and to disengage with the bullies' game playing. Easier said than done though.

Do your daughter a tapestry to hang on her wall that says
DO NO HARM, BUT TAKE NO SHIT
(or otherwise instill that ethos in her)

Take her to drama/karate/other confidence building activities. I begged my mum to go to drama youth group when I was a young teen, because I knew it would be useful for self esteem, she never did anything about it.

Above all, be a nuclear tiger mum... my parents, while occasionally going in to chat with school, never did much effectual or understood the devastating effect on me, even when my grades plummeted after year 7 and I became a homework refuser/scatterbrained forgetting kit/books etc. I was bullied and socially excluded by peers at school and subjugated and shamed by my parents

So sorry for your dd, it's horrible being bullied. I agree with the poster saying she could be an easy target. Bullies will try to bully anyone sometimes for no no other reason than the person lets them. Does your dd stand up for herself when it happens? It can be scary but may help

There was an MTV programme on bullying and the psychologist said that all children have the same experiences with other children being nasty etc but it is how they react which marks them out as a potential targets. If kids get a big reaction like crying, becoming hysterical, escalating it to adults as a huge deal, they are more likely to be targeted in the future.

My Dd now 9 yrs was being bullied last yr in y4. She is a friendly caring peple pleasing child. Refused to answer the bully back "but I will get into trouble!"
Just wanted to share our experience of how the school responded to give you a yardstick to measure your school against. I'm not saying ours has been a beacon in terms of response but I was satisfied and the bullying has stopped.
The Head teacher spoke to class teachers (I went straight to the Head) and popped in to dds class to observe. The boy in question was spoken to in the HT office. My Dd was invited (under a made up reason) to see HT twice a couple of weeks apart so HT could check how she was doing. The boy was moved away from my Dd in the classroom. The HT phoned me fortnightly for updates and then again 2 wks into this new school year to make sure Dd had settled without problem. All staff were informed including lunchtime supervisors to keep an eye on behaviour.
Fingest crossed all is well now. However this boy is a cocky type and I expect he'll probably spend his life teasing others and putting them down....

Green Tulips has it right
"Kids get bullied because teacher turn a blind eye - they don't enforce the dont bullying policy - they don't call parents into school - they don't teach kids to stand up for themselves or each other - they encourage kids keep quite and not tell tales - they don't centrally report bullying - they don't demand dinner staff log playground issues
Why is she bullied? Because they allow her to be"

If only teachers and other staff would stop treating every incident as a complete one-off and open their eyes and see how one child is targeted day after day, it would change the way they reacted and they could change the vileness that goes on right under their noses daily.

My dd was bullied at primary, she was unable to stand up for herself as she has SN. In my dd's case it was because she was different, she was immature and and obeyed all the rules about being nice to other people, whilst they made her more than a nervous wreck, covered her in bruises and destroyed her self-esteem.
Mercifully she now as an adult remembers nothing of it and has no contact with the that made her life hell physically and mentally every day she attended.

Everyone who says bullied kids should toughen up and stand up for themselves, well great if they can, that's a wonderful outcome.

But there are loads of kids like mine, with and without SN who just cannot do that, read peoples' accounts upthread, and they are the ones who need the most help and are mostly denied it from the adults in their lives who should know better.