To think kids shouldn't talk to teachers like this.

[onlyindreams]

I realise that the majority of kids will show respect to teachers but some of the stuff my dgc tell me is awful. One girl called her teacher a disgusting human being" , another said "you dirty little peado", another one said, when asked not to shout "who do you think you're talking to".

How has it all come to this, i despair, where's the respect gone, please tell me it's not all that bad and not typical of the average 12/13 year old and probably above.

Most kids who chair swing don't even realise they're doing it. Send them to the head or give them detention or whatever if they're being deliberately defiant, by all means. Get them to stand for 10 minutes then have the serious talk maybe. Child misbehaving doesn't mean teacher can do wtf they like to them, there are behaviour management policies.

Most kids who chair swing don't even realise they're doing it

They do when it's been brought to their attention several times.

You can't see why a child would find it humiliating to be made to stand when the rest of the class is sitting? That's a scary lack of empathy coming from a teacher.

That's a scary lack of empathy coming from a teacher.

I'm not a teacher.

I agree with you there penggwyn.

The "old fashioned" teachers using "old fashioned" teaching methods (minus the violence of the past) seem to be doing fine discipline wise.

This is actually not always true. Some of the colleagues I saw most struggle were those who could not accept that they no longer got blind respect from pupils like they had done at the start of their careers. A lot of children no longer respond to old fashioned being shouted out or intimidated and those teachers who insist on persisting with these methods sometimes struggle the most.

Educating Manchester is nothing extreme. My Mum is a high school teacher and some of the stories she tells me...(I teach primary so thankfully have only been told to 'f' off once!)

Yes. Kids these days lack any respect at all. We have taught them to 'know their rights' and to 'Ring Childline' etc. To be fair, we have also taught them stranger danger etc. It used to take a village. Now it would take a very very brave person to get in the middle of a teenager being foul mouthed to someone. Most people just walk away.

I was addressing lm's "I can't see" post Mrs, sorry for the X post. But... DS had been told several thousand times a week not to suck his thumb, he still does it without being conscious he is.

Sucking your thumb is not dangerous. She had been warned twice and told that she would lose her chair. Do you think it was ok for the girl in staples corner post to threaten a teacher for not letting them go to the loo then too because she may have been uncormfortable? Or the anecdotes people have for simply giving instructions and being swore at?

It's more and more common and it stems from the attitude so often shown on MN about younger children.

The attitude is all about being entitled to an education. Nothing about rights or responsibilities; just entitlement.

I could never work in the state system again.

My SIL is such parent, she has a massive chip on her shoulder with anyone perceived as an authority figure - teachers, doctors, the police, unsurprisingly her dc are exactly the same

You can't see why a child would find it humiliating to be made to stand when the rest of the class is sitting?

I don't think that falls into the category of 'humiliating' punishment, no. You could say that a child would find it humiliating to be kept in detention when their friends are outside playing, that it would be humiliating to be made to leave the classroom and stand outside when the rest of the class is in the room, that it would be humiliating to be reprimanded in front of their peers, humiliating to be made to run an extra lap of the sports field. Any punishment could be potentially humiliating, but making someone stand up is not degrading to them, no.

@topicOfTheDay our deputy believes that too. That having an education should be cherished not taken for granted. That if you repeatedly abuse the system and parents fail to back up the school then the child should be excluded and become the parents responsibility.

We have the same problem when children/ students move from year 11 to Sixth form. They have given us hell, truanted, walked out of class and parents refuse to come in for meetings. Then suddenly they demand we have them back for 6th form (with no passes and an attitude problem) as their tax credits are going to be stopped. The balance is wrong at the moment and parents (not blindly) need to be backing the School. They sign up for it...., then undermine it.

Every so often, government says it wants more ex service people to go into teaching to restore discipline & give the kids some of the pride, self discipline, self confidence & achievement they got in HMS Forces.
Part of me likes the idea, part says it won't work because the majority of the trouble makers are too far gone unless teachers have effective sanctions & back up from SLT.
Most kids will respond to firm, fair & consistent treatment but sometimes they just don't.

you are a waste of time and don’t deserve to be here as you don’t want to learn

If a teacher says that to my child I would be furious with my child

But then we always supported the teachers and maybe that’s why our kids held down boring Saturday jobs from 16, got good grades and good jobs.

Far too many pampered princes and princesses now.

Fucking ridiculous

My granddaughter was telling me about a girl in her class who keeps coming into school with false nails and false eyelashes. The teacher, at the end of his tether because she totally refuses to stop wearing them, did a compromise with her, if she stops wearing the eyelashes he'll allow her to wear the nails. . I'm beyond appalled.

It's one of the reasons I'm so grateful that ds is in a small private school. There is no way any of the kids would even attempt to speak to the teachers like that, all hell fire would rain down on them! Self respect,pride in their own behaviour and good manners are considered mandatory. Also the parents back the teachers and have high expectations of their kids.

Papafran

Thank you, I totally agree it was not like I made the girl stand at the front of class in full view.

I once treated a lady in her nineties who'd qualified as a doctor but then left work to raise children full-time because her husband had a "very good job". I obviously asked what he did and she - very proudly - replied that he was "a school master".

@wannabestressfree

My hint was there

"I could never work in the state system again"

I think that the biggest different between Indy and state education is the difference in attitude between entitlement and privilege. It goes for parents as well as children.

Teaching a child who wants to be taught and whose parents are keen and supportive is a joy!

Entitlement are usually most common amongst those with chips on their shoulders, and they are also the ones who demand 'respect' with every breath and give none.

Making a child stand is hardly humiliation.

In my first teaching practice, in what was considered one of the naicer secondary schools in a medium sized Southern city, I had a miserable lesson (assessed by a tutor, just for good measure) during which there was considerable disruption. This was so commonplace as to be normal. I cracked down on the miscreants and regained control but was told after that I was chilly. Later, another (older) teacher, complaining about low level disruption, said that at the start of her career (1970s) there would have been 10 disruptive children per school; by mid 1980s, it was 10-15 per 250 year group, but that by 2005, it was often up to 10 per class. That is the true extent of bad behaviour in many schools, and it makes teaching nigh-on impossible.

It's been said already, but the support from SLT and parents is what can make or break a school.

I've been a teacher coming up to 15 years. I work in a really, erm, interesting school. I love the kids, but it is hard some days. It feels like I'm having to constantly teach them manners, kindness and just generally how to be polite. None of which I mind doing, but it's utterly astounding how prevelant this is becoming. And how much time it takes from my lessons patiently explaining (again) that it's not okay to do XY or Z.

Shouting never works. Patience does. But bloody hell, it can wear thin and we all make mistakes.

That said, the comments upthread about porn and DV- did you hear those with your own ears? I hope you reported them, they are fucking atrocious!